Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree12Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 06-21-2014
Dog Ship's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dolphin Beach, B.C.
Posts: 551
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
Dog Ship is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

I really wish people would stop buying crap from China.
Like Paul said, It's basically disposable sh@t.
Buying stuff made in your own country does three things.
It keeps your neighbour employed, it keeps your money at home, and it improves your country's economy.
Sure stuff in the US and Canada may cost a bit more but in the long run it is worth it.
Buying locally your money is spent 3 times over locally.
The basis of our county's economic problems is the fact that we buy stuff abroad and the money is gone, never to be seen again.
__________________
We have three rules;
No screaming.
No bleeding on the sails.
No slobbering on the charts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 06-21-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 713
Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 10
xymotic is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captflood View Post
GREETINGS EARTHLINGS you can buy spanners they all look the same but if your job or life might depend on them I bet you would rather have a craftsman in your hand at the time. Remember when John Deer moved to Mexico and two years latter moves it all back again Quality is KING when you are depending on it. AS ALWAYS GO SAFE
While I appreciate the point you are making; I don't think you could have possibly picked a worse example than craftsman.

The tool industry is all very convoluted; but as I understand it Home Depot first approached the MFR of craftsman to also make its home brand of tools. (Which I *think* was JH Williams Co)

At the time they said Sears had been very good to them, their bread and butter for 100+ years and they declined to make tools for HD because they didn't want to jeopardize their relationship w/Sears. Sometime after that Sears began repaid their loyalty by outsourcing and eventually went almost 100% to China. And now Craftsman has been so watered down it's for sale in Kmart and True Value as a low-end economy brand.

After Sears screwed em: Lowes decided to follow HD with a house brand and they got lucky with timing and snatched up JHW as the MFR and they began making tools for Lowes under the Kobalt brand; A real coup for Lowes because their Kobalt brand **WAS** pretty great.

Only to have Lowes do the exact same thing and outsource to China 10 years or so later.

Now bear in mind I got this all third hand from some HD ppl I know in Atlanta; but the events certainly ring true and one thing that I think is not in dispute is that Craftsman and Kobalt's quality have plummeted into the dumper the last few years. Really leaving the options for good tools as: Snap-on and Matco. which are the 'premium' brands of US manufacturers (for the moment)
christian.hess likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 06-21-2014
Omatako's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 2,427
Thanks: 0
Thanked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Omatako will become famous soon enough
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Some of it looks like copy-cat stuff, other items look like the genuine article, perhaps just without the badge/label put on yet before being shipped.

Some of the stuff looks difficult to make a copycat of. Inflatable boats? Immersion suits with harnesses? Liferafts? Some of this stuff looks legit, and some of their prices look really good.
It is probably easier to copy top brands than one thinks. If a factory decides to make, for example, inflatable dingies and has the means to do it no matter how badly, what extra work does it take to make it look like a top brand model?

Chinese Land wind X7 - Range Rover Evoque Clone

The above link will show a Range Rover cloned in China. That's a whole lot more difficult than copying a dingy or outboard motor or life raft for that matter. The BBC TV programme Top Gear tested one of the clones and declared it "a piece of rubbish". Mind you, there are people who declare that about the genuine British-built Range Rover

We see a lot of Chinese made products in New Zealand and they are all sub-standard - no exceptions. I would not have any one of them on my boat, non-critical or not. I just like things that work like you expect them to. I once got sucked into buying 100 metres of Chinese-made nylon braided rope and when I uncoiled it it was joined in two places. Pieces are now used on my pick-up truck to tie things down.
christian.hess likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."

Arthur C. Clarke
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 06-21-2014
Omatako's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Posts: 2,427
Thanks: 0
Thanked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Omatako will become famous soon enough
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
Now bear in mind I got this all third hand from some HD ppl I know in Atlanta; but the events certainly ring true and one thing that I think is not in dispute is that Craftsman and Kobalt's quality have plummeted into the dumper the last few years. Really leaving the options for good tools as: Snap-on and Matco. which are the 'premium' brands of US manufacturers (for the moment)
Notwithstanding what I said in my earlier post about not having Chinese on the boat, I do have Chinese made products in my workshop at home. Not hand tools mind you, my hand tools are all good quality stuff, mostly German.

But I do have a small metal lathe and a hobby milling machine that are made in China and they are quite nice tools. For home use they are accurate and quite powerful, enabling the machining of many of the parts for assorted home, boat and even some money generating projects. I guess with the low volume of production in a home workshop they will probably last quite well as well.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

__________________

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."

Arthur C. Clarke
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 06-21-2014
trantor12020's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 680
Thanks: 2
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 9
trantor12020 is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

iPhone is made in China..by Foxcon Taiwan company..right?
Jaramaz likes this.
__________________
Ken
2002 Hunter 326, SV Millennium 2
1999 Macgregor 26X, SV Millennium
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 06-22-2014
Salamander's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Beijing
Posts: 16
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
Salamander is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joebeach View Post
LOL. Stealing this!
Noted
MedSailor likes this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 06-22-2014
christian.hess's Avatar
"Nubile Southern Sailor"
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Columbus, Ga
Posts: 3,835
Thanks: 103
Thanked 152 Times in 148 Posts
Rep Power: 2
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

guys its a lost cause to think that people will stop buying stuff from china...the bottom line is its consumer based and wanted.

the world WANTS cheap disposable
the world DOESNT want stuff that lasts and is fixeable
the world DOESNT want expensive labor
the world DOESNT want the BEST and for sure not ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE

and for those thinking that 1st world countries consume only things made at home or mostly... think hard and long about that, as many companies even in the good ole us are china owned...

unfortunately like those who want good quality stuff, stuff that lasts, that can be fixed and used for all your life:

WE are the disposed of and dissapearing consumers.


peace
__________________
Finally sailed!!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Islander 36 refit still going on...

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 06-22-2014
christian.hess's Avatar
"Nubile Southern Sailor"
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Columbus, Ga
Posts: 3,835
Thanks: 103
Thanked 152 Times in 148 Posts
Rep Power: 2
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
It is probably easier to copy top brands than one thinks. If a factory decides to make, for example, inflatable dingies and has the means to do it no matter how badly, what extra work does it take to make it look like a top brand model?

Chinese Land wind X7 - Range Rover Evoque Clone

The above link will show a Range Rover cloned in China. That's a whole lot more difficult than copying a dingy or outboard motor or life raft for that matter. The BBC TV programme Top Gear tested one of the clones and declared it "a piece of rubbish". Mind you, there are people who declare that about the genuine British-built Range Rover

We see a lot of Chinese made products in New Zealand and they are all sub-standard - no exceptions. I would not have any one of them on my boat, non-critical or not. I just like things that work like you expect them to. I once got sucked into buying 100 metres of Chinese-made nylon braided rope and when I uncoiled it it was joined in two places. Pieces are now used on my pick-up truck to tie things down.
Im a top gear fan and being raised in a brittish academy appreciate and uderstand the humour

having said that they recently did a show where they tested "ORIGINAL" new chinese cars...

luxury ones and even the most diehard brit of the 3 said in a few years and tweaks here and there there was nothing that would prevent him from buying one.

there is a big distinction between a direct copy and an original design...

copycatting was made famous by non other than the japanese who later became masters themselves...

the chinese are smart...they know what the world wants...CRAP for the most part.

even here in the jungle...you can see handcrafts, and textiles and clothes that are preffered by us(why? cause its even cheaper) despite the fact that we are known for textiles and cheap good labor

and take this, taiwanese, chinese, indonesian etc all are flocking to central america because labor and laws are even cheaper and less stringent here than they are back "home"

cheap and $$$ wins all the time

THE BOTTOM LINE

outsourcing at its best if you ask me
__________________
Finally sailed!!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Islander 36 refit still going on...

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by christian.hess; 06-22-2014 at 12:18 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 06-22-2014
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,831
Thanks: 58
Thanked 52 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 4
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
While I appreciate the point you are making; I don't think you could have possibly picked a worse example than craftsman.

The tool industry is all very convoluted; but as I understand it Home Depot first approached the MFR of craftsman to also make its home brand of tools. (Which I *think* was JH Williams Co)

At the time they said Sears had been very good to them, their bread and butter for 100+ years and they declined to make tools for HD because they didn't want to jeopardize their relationship w/Sears. Sometime after that Sears began repaid their loyalty by outsourcing and eventually went almost 100% to China. And now Craftsman has been so watered down it's for sale in Kmart and True Value as a low-end economy brand.

After Sears screwed em: Lowes decided to follow HD with a house brand and they got lucky with timing and snatched up JHW as the MFR and they began making tools for Lowes under the Kobalt brand; A real coup for Lowes because their Kobalt brand **WAS** pretty great.

Only to have Lowes do the exact same thing and outsource to China 10 years or so later.

Now bear in mind I got this all third hand from some HD ppl I know in Atlanta; but the events certainly ring true and one thing that I think is not in dispute is that Craftsman and Kobalt's quality have plummeted into the dumper the last few years. Really leaving the options for good tools as: Snap-on and Matco. which are the 'premium' brands of US manufacturers (for the moment)
Snap-On is made in China now - sold in Costco.

Showing loyalty to a contemporary corporation is a suckers game - their only loyalty is to the short term bottom line.
xymotic and christian.hess like this.
__________________
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 06-22-2014
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,831
Thanks: 58
Thanked 52 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 4
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: Cheap boating gear. Too good to be true?

One thing that seems to be getting missed in all the China bashing is that it's nothing new. When I was a kid in the Fifties "Made in Japan" was a standard term for crap. Then, as Japanese stuff improved, it became "Made in Hong Kong". Then their stuff improved and it became "Made in Taiwan", then Korea and so on. Currently China is OUTsourcing their lowest end stuff - look at the label on a cheap T-shirt or junky plastic trinkets - Made in the Maldives or sub-Saharan Africa.

It's a natural bootstrapping process and Chinese stuff WILL improve. A friend of mine imports heavy industrial machinery from China and it gets the job done for a fraction of the price of ours.

This process is the only way to bring up the standard of living of the poor Third World countries. Bill Gates recently said there would be no poor countries by the Thirties. I think he may have been a bit optimistic on that but it WILL happen and China is the current demonstration of how it happens.

They may BUILD I-Phones but they don't invent them. For that matter - how many things have been CREATED by Japanese industry? Most of their products are improvements or developments of things invented elsewhere.
asdf38 and christian.hess like this.
__________________
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Too good to be true??? Help me ASAP!! jaymckay General Discussion (sailing related) 76 11-13-2012 12:49 PM
KiWigrip, too good to be true? deniseO30 Gear & Maintenance 9 06-04-2010 01:28 PM
Too good to be true? strandedsooner Boat Review and Purchase Forum 17 10-02-2009 02:55 PM
“Too good to be true” windlass deal? MisterBilge Gear & Maintenance 7 01-18-2009 02:14 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:06 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.