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  #1  
Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Smile Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

While I await the insurance decisions on my seized engine, I've been looking into options for rebuild, long/short blocks and new engines.

I can get a rebuilt engine for nearly the exact same cost as a new yanmar, and the rebuilt engine only has a 6 month warranty. Yanmars are new, and have a 2-3 year warranty. Cheap long and short blocks don't seem to be avalible and so far the quotes to rebuild my engine are coming out as high, or higher than a new one...

So... lets shop for a new engine for me. First, what do I have and what is the boat designed to have.

The boat is a Nauticat 40 and it currently has a Ford Lehman 90HP naturally aspirated engine and a Borg Warner velvet drive turning a 22x16LH prop.

The boat displaces 31,000 lbs dry, and with my 420 gal of tankage, generator, stuff etc it likely weighs in at 35-36,000lbs. LWL is 32'8". The engine that's in the boat now is more of a production decision than a design one. You see, the Nauticat yard used to put the same 90HP ford in every one of their boats, from the 17,000lb 33footer to the 43 which weighs in at a ton more than my boat.

So, how many HP do I need? I've been told that 2HP per ton is what it takes to reach hull speed and my experience with my Formosa 41 and my other boats tells me that seems a little short. The formosa 41 weighed in at 28,000lbs dry and the engine put out 36HP or so at WOT....

Actually, since I ran her at about 80% of WOT and she wasn't cruised at "dry weight" the 2hp per ton might be pretty close. Things had to be absolutely perfect though for all this to work and the difference of one inch of prop pitch made all the difference in the world.

Going forward, I think I need 2HP per ton, with a bit of fudge factor built in so I can still go hull speed if the bottom isn't perfectly clean. I wouldn't mind a little more power to push a knot or 2 faster in a high current situation or when trying to make a slack current deadline.

Other considerations:
I'd like it to be reliable.
I'd like it to be quiet.
I'd like parts to be cheap and available everywhere.
I'd like it to be fuel efficient.
I'd love to be able to re-use my VDO gauges instead of having to buy and figure out where to mount, expensive panels with wiring harnesses.
I really don't want a turbo, but I'm willing to listen to the arguments for one.

I'm probably going to need a new prop too, so we can talk about that as well.

MedSailor
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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

I'd add to your requirements the degree of modifications of the existing beds.. This can be a big job if it's a major redesign/reconstruction of that crucial area.
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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

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I'd add to your requirements the degree of modifications of the existing beds.. This can be a big job if it's a major redesign/reconstruction of that crucial area.
Good point. The yard estimate is +20hrs for a yanmar over a rebuilt ford because of the exhaust changes, wiring, and engine bedding. I would think it would be difficult to compare, say, Beta vs Yanmar for how difficult they are going to be to install...

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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

Engine mount footprints/dimensions and overall dimensions should be available online (or from dealers) and allow you to compare and check that you'll have the necessary clearances for passing the package in and out of the cabin, and in the engine space itself.

Another thing to watch for is prop shaft exit angles.. not the same for everybody's offerings.
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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

Med,

Had Westerbrakes, Volvo's, and Yanmars. The Westerbrakes got the nickname for a reason, the Volvo's had hard to get expensive parts, the Yanmars I just changed the oil and impellers annually, and never gave me any trouble.

YMMV.

Good luck, not easy what you're going through but if you start new, you know what you got.
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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

Sorry to see you are providing your own version of global economic stimulus. We have a Westerbeke and it has been reliable but the part prices can be nasty. Long time since I had a Volvo so can't compare. Our boat loaded is about 20 tons and we have 58 hp. I certainly would not like to have less and probably would like around 70 hp or so.

Something else to check, there are many things, is where the service points are on the engine and where the service portals are on your boat. You don't want an oil filter in some place that is really hard to deal with. i don't know why there is no standardization of locations. Would seem to be good for everyone.
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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

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Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
Sorry to see you are providing your own version of global economic stimulus. We have a Westerbeke and it has been reliable but the part prices can be nasty. Long time since I had a Volvo so can't compare. Our boat loaded is about 20 tons and we have 58 hp. I certainly would not like to have less and probably would like around 70 hp or so.

Something else to check, there are many things, is where the service points are on the engine and where the service portals are on your boat. You don't want an oil filter in some place that is really hard to deal with. i don't know why there is no standardization of locations. Would seem to be good for everyone.
Now that's a good idea! The port side of my engine is difficult to access as it is right now. Good thing to consider. Likely though, I'll end up with more clearance as the ford is a BIG engine.

I have a westerbeke genset. I wonder if there would be any common parts? Probably not...

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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

My personal preference would to go normally aspirated if possible(as I said in the other thread). but that leaves you a bit short of HP, but Beta makes a normally aspirated four cylinder that makes 75 HP. They have some nice factory installed options for larger alternators (using Balmer alternators) and serpentine belts to drive them. They can also do remote mount filters, and oil change pumps. I think a lot of these options can make them pretty attractive. I don't know who makes this block as obviously Beta just ads the marine bits and lots of them use Kubuta tractor motors, so parts should be available anywhere. Turbos to me seem to be a trouble spot for some engines in the marine environment.

Then you can get into John Deer, but I don't think they are going to have typical sailboat setups. But your boat is not really a standard sailboat set up. I understand someone was teaming up with VW to use there TDI blocks but they seem to be higher RPM motors than you would need. Nanni used to have lots of offerings but you don't hear much about them, same with Vetus.
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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

I am guessing that you want to get a new gauge package with the new engine.. I bet the extra labor to figure out/connect them to the new engine isn't going to be worth it...

And, you'd get new gauges.

Sorry.
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Re: Turn that frown upside down! Lets talk NEW engines!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Now that's a good idea! The port side of my engine is difficult to access as it is right now. Good thing to consider. Likely though, I'll end up with more clearance as the ford is a BIG engine.

I have a westerbeke genset. I wonder if there would be any common parts? Probably not...

MedSailor
You can download the parts manual for your genset from Westerbeke and then could compare with the parts list for a new engine. My guess is probably not much in common because of age and a different base engine.
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