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Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Had a great weekend at the Toronto boat show. Certainly lots of big fancy boats to step aboard and dream about. More importantly as a newer boat owner, I got to meet lots of local businesses in the industry and start planning ahead for future projects. Like any good boat-related event, I also got to thoroughly empty my bank account...

I'm having a bit of an issue with one of my larger purchases: several hundred feet of "marine wire" ranging from 1/0 to 14 gauge. This was advertised as Ancor product that was priced at roughly 40-50% off local retail pricing. What I ended up getting in the box is SAE wire labelled "C.S. Wire & Cable" rated at 80deg and 50V. I freely admit I'm a bit of stickler for details, but in my mind this isn't quite the same as AWG wire rated at 105deg and 600V.

After noticing this, I called up the retailer today and was assured that the wire I bought was manufactured by Ancor but is older stock. I was also told that 105deg wire is very new and difficult to source in Canada.

I'm being given the option of either returning the wire for a full refund or paying an additional cost to exchange it for newer wire if they are able to source it. Complicating this, is a 4 hour return trip to the store or paying shipping charges. Given I got a great price on the wire, should I just go ahead and stop fretting the details?

Thanks for your help!
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Everything you ever wanted to know about boat cable :

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/....1426.1986.pdf

Note that it does refer to an SAE standard for 50V boat cable, SAEJ1127.

So it IS possible that what you have is boat cable. See page 17 of the standard. It may be labelled with the SAE three letter code, and the temperature rating.

What does the label say, exactly?
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Last edited by MarkSF; 1 Week Ago at 03:29 PM.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Sounds like you got ripped off. If SAE indicates it is acceptable to auto manufacturers ... um ... that's setting the bar desperately low. I cannot think of any product with lower standards and specs than an automobile.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

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Originally Posted by aloof View Post
Sounds like you got ripped off. If SAE indicates it is acceptable to auto manufacturers ... um ... that's setting the bar desperately low. I cannot think of any product with lower standards and specs than an automobile.
As your signature suggests, don't let facts get in the way.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by novic View Post
Had a great weekend at the Toronto boat show. Certainly lots of big fancy boats to step aboard and dream about. More importantly as a newer boat owner, I got to meet lots of local businesses in the industry and start planning ahead for future projects. Like any good boat-related event, I also got to thoroughly empty my bank account...

I'm having a bit of an issue with one of my larger purchases: several hundred feet of "marine wire" ranging from 1/0 to 14 gauge. This was advertised as Ancor product that was priced at roughly 40-50% off local retail pricing. What I ended up getting in the box is SAE wire labelled "C.S. Wire & Cable" rated at 80deg and 50V. I freely admit I'm a bit of stickler for details, but in my mind this isn't quite the same as AWG wire rated at 105deg and 600V.

After noticing this, I called up the retailer today and was assured that the wire I bought was manufactured by Ancor but is older stock. I was also told that 105deg wire is very new and difficult to source in Canada.

I'm being given the option of either returning the wire for a full refund or paying an additional cost to exchange it for newer wire if they are able to source it. Complicating this, is a 4 hour return trip to the store or paying shipping charges. Given I got a great price on the wire, should I just go ahead and stop fretting the details?

Thanks for your help!
#1 You are being lied to. 105C UL Marine wire has been around in excess of 25 years. Hard to get my arse.

#2 Ancor does not make wire, they brand wire...

Return it, the guy seems a bit snakey.. If you paid for 105C BC5W2 UL1426 wire that is what you should get.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Exactly what Maine sail says, and also you may be using this for only 12V applications, cannot be used for any 120v or 240v wiring on your boat. Better to stick with 105c rated conductors as will be good also if you run thru engine compartment.
In the end best to have 105c-600v rated wiring.....
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Yep... as Mainesail and others have suggested you got ripped off... simple online search reveals:

GPT Automotive Hook Up Wire

GPT Wire
Volts: 50V
Temperature: 80ºC

GPT Wire Insulation
Polyvinylchloride Insulation

GPT Wire Conductor
Stranded Bare Copper

GPT Wire Applications

For use in general circuit wiring according to SAE J-1128. It is also used in wiring harnesses in passenger cars and light trucks, agricultural tractors, construction, locomotive and off-the-road vehicles. Intended for use at 50 volts or less in surface vehicle electrical systems.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by novic View Post
I'm having a bit of an issue with one of my larger purchases: several hundred feet of "marine wire" ranging from 1/0 to 14 gauge. This was advertised as Ancor product that was priced at roughly 40-50% off local retail pricing. What I ended up getting in the box is SAE wire labelled "C.S. Wire & Cable" rated at 80deg and 50V. I freely admit I'm a bit of stickler for details, but in my mind this isn't quite the same as AWG wire rated at 105deg and 600V.

After noticing this, I called up the retailer today and was assured that the wire I bought was manufactured by Ancor but is older stock. I was also told that 105deg wire is very new and difficult to source in Canada.
The retailer is feeding you a pack of lies. I'm based Toronto and fully rewired my boat 15 years ago with all marine Ancor wire 105c rated. Its in every real chandlery very easy to find!. Sounds like the retailer was trying to dump cheap wire at premium prices. Pending the outcome you should let us know who they are so we can avoid them

Also when you eventually go to sell a good surveyor will notice that you used incorrect wire and should note it in their report as an item to remedy (I.E. lower selling price)

Last edited by pcmm; 1 Week Ago at 05:21 PM.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all the quick replies. I had a suspicion this would be the consensus. Interestingly, a search on the address found on some of the packaging for "C.S. wire and cable" seems to historically be associated with Marinco/Ancor but a quick call to them confirms that they have no information about the wire I have in hand.

Drats. Looks like I'm going to have to take a road trip down for a refund. Although I've never shopped with this store before, I was really hoping to establish a good relationship with them, as they came highly recommended to me as a local supplier of general marine goods but also specific original parts/replacements for my boat. In hindsight, although they genuinely came across as very nice and honest folks at the show, i have a hard time believing they genuinely mistook this old (?ancient) wiring as equivalent to what they are advertising.

In any event, if anyone else in the Toronto area is/was looking into a great deal on Ancor marine wire, buyer beware and please feel free to PM me so I can give you the details of my transaction.

Thank you again for everyone's help.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Something that can explain it all:

SAE wire gauges and AWG wire gauges (which Ancor usually uses) are NOT THE SAME. An SAE wire size is normally 1-2 sizes under the corresponding AWG size, as I recall, so if you order AWG-10 wire, and you get "SAE-10" you've really gotten AWG-14, a very much smaller, thinner, CHEAPER wire.

The merchant is basically paying by the pound for copper, and when they deliver a size or two lighter? Right, they have saved lots of money. AND CHEATED YOU.

This could be actionable fraud (mail fraud, wire fraud, etc.) in the US. It would also be delivering non-conforming goods, which would both release you from any obligation to accept them.

Could be some sort of relabeling mix-up, sure. But CHECK THE WIRE on a gauge (or use a wire stripper, see if it strips at the right size) and if you were sent non-confirming goods, tell the vendor you're on to the game. They can send a pre-paid pickup slip, or they can explain it to the fraud investigators.

There's just too much of this ***t going on. It IS simply criminal, and we all need to roll up our sleeves and pitch in to stop it. If you used a credit card, non-conforming goods is a perfect reason to call the card company and reject the charges.
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