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We just cannot get it apart

6K views 41 replies 26 participants last post by  mf70 
#1 · (Edited)
After 5 days, we seem no closer to getting this winch apart. All the appropriate screws are out. PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench, WD-40, CLR, Corrosion Block and hot water, all to no avail. We have probably cleaned out 75% of the corrosion (using knives, dental tools and putty knives), but still no movement at all. We just can not remove any more of the corrosion.
Also tried beating on the bronze (not shaft, base) with a hammer, putting it under extreme pressure by winching, in several directions. Lewmar suggested beating with hammer (and wood) sideways on the top of the spindle (where line is in pic 4), but that didn't do anything either. Obviously, heat won't work as irreplaceable bearings have plastic bits and it's mounted on wood.
It's taken Lewmar, Winch Spares and Mallorca Yacht Service several weeks to identify the winch and to find the appropriate diagrams and plans. They've all done a fine job. Tried all their suggestions, too.
All we're trying to do is get them apart for servicing, but no joy.
Picture 5 shows groove, see yellow arrows. Picture 4 shows sideways pressure. Picture 2 shows putty knife in groove. Picture 8 shows the same corrosion that cracked another winch base, since repaired with epoxy and painted, but we'll deal with that another day.
Thanks for any ideas.
 

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#2 ·
Sometimes tacking together a steel frame which lets you put on pressure from a hydraulic jack, can give you the kind of force you need.
Tapping the outside of metal can expand it slightly, as can warming it.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, but there is no place to attach anything for an upward pull. I'd be afraid to drill and tap into an unknown, with gears and bearings inside.
Remember, these winches work fine, I just want to service them. At somewhere near 8 grand each to replace, I'd rather not destroy them.
 
#4 ·
Why are there still 4 cap head screws installed? Are you sure they don't hold it together?

"PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench, WD-40, CLR, Corrosion Block and hot water". 5 out of 6 things on this list are useless. I would use only the PB Blaster. Spray it twice a day. It might take a week of regular spraying to do some good.

What kind of hammer are you using? You want a heavy lump hammer. This will impart a large impulse in a controlled manner.

The most effective way I've found to release car suspension ball joint tapers is by placing a steady load, and applying a shock at the same time. You could try loading up a sheet like you already tried, and hit the base with a lump hammer while the load is applied.
 
#5 ·
I doubt force will get it apart. I've had the same issue. I had to cut out all the corrosion using whatever tool could get in the crack. The corrosion produces ceramic-like material which is very strong. I've never seen penetrating oils do anything positive with aluminum. With some clearance and hammer pounding it may come free. You may need to destroy the base. If you can get it off the deck, possibly by cutting away the bolts from below, then taking it to a machine shop may be a good way. They can apply forces in an optimal fashion.

Probably should have been servicing those winches at least annually...you or the PO.

There are some on eBay for only $950.
 
#9 ·
I have a special anti-seize product, made specifically for alloy and any other metal, that I use on masts, booms. etc and it does the job well. If I get it apart, you can bet I'm going to use it liberally.
Biggest reason I haven't serviced these winches before is that I had no diagrams. It's actually taken several years of pleading and cajoling to get Lewmar to find the right ones, with lots of re-measuring and pics on my part.
It's that ceramic stuff posted about that I need to find a chemical for. One that won't eat the alloy or the bronze (dream on?). I haven't found even PB Blaster to be effective on that stuff.
Thanks, but no heat; irreplaceable bearings are partly plastic.
And yes, we positively have the six screws out that must come out for disassembly, never mind the pictures.
Winches cannot be removed from the boat without taking the winches apart OR a Sawzall.
Still thanks for the ideas, and do keep trying. We really need the help.
 
#8 ·
My best experiences with defeating aluminum corrosion includes liberal use of vinegar and time, and repeated "working" of the joint to the limits of its movement in every degree of freedom. Even small movements and repeated washings with vinegar will eventually dissolve the corrosion. Patience...

For red rust and green corrosion, ATF and acetone, in equal parts...like George said.

When aluminum and stainless have corroded in contact and welded together, destructive disassembly has been my only friend.
 
#20 ·
There are at least two types of anti-seize compounds available from the manufacturers. One is the grey anti-seize that we are familiar with, made for steel on steel applications, like engines.
The other is gold or copper colored and it is specifically formulated for aluminum applications. It was used originally for aluminum heads on steel blocks.
It repels salt water and seems to last forever on s/s threads in aluminum, like on a mast. Zero corrosion, and as they say, it always comes apart like, 'butta'.
 
#11 ·
I think a little heat applied locally to the area is the next step. Small torch with a directed flame. Maybe cool down the surrounding areas with an ice pack or dry ice to mitigate damage. How far are the plastic bits from those screws?. I don't think it will need a lot of heat either.
 
#27 ·
I'll tell you what, Dale. You guaranty to get both winches apart without destroying anything and I'll fly you down to do the job. LOL
Of course if you fail, instructions or not, and you screw up a couple of 8k winches that work just fine, you can replace them at YOUR expense. Should I book the ticket today?
And yes, epoxy, and some elbow grease. Check out the two pics below.
 

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#14 ·
If it still will not come apart. Take it off the boat and to a machine shop and have them vat it. Caustic soda will disolve anything except metal. You will need new springs, O-rings, gasgets, may haps even roller bearings, but it should come apart.
 
#21 ·
If it still will not come apart. Take it off the boat and to a machine shop and have them vat it. Caustic soda will disolve anything except metal. You will need new springs, O-rings, gasgets, may haps even roller bearings, but it should come apart.
I think that's the point. They ARE trying to get it off the boat first.
 
#17 ·
I recently used an impact driver to remove machine screws on a Wilcox Crittenden Skipper marine toilet that was 20 years old. Since you've removed all the applicable screws that would not work, however, if your goal is to be able to rotate the drum to be able to remove it, then something like a fuel filter wrench around the drum to rotate it. Being able to impact that set up with a hammer much like what is happening with a impact driver on machine screws might bring some results. FWIW
 
#19 ·
How about one of those high-speed vibrating tools. They come with a number of blades one of which is a thin scraper. I use the scraper to remove a lot of things on boats that nothing else will break loose. Just fire it up and shove it down where you've been pushing that putty knife. Mine's a Dremel Multi Max but I know Bosch makes a similar tool. It works with both the vibrating action and the heat it builds up locally from friction. Try it it may work.
 
#28 ·
EURIKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks wfish. Had one onboard the whole time, but never thought of it. An hour with that tool and it just popped apart. You can bet it's going back together with lots of anti-seize! Funny, it doesn't look all that corroded. What a great glue that would make!
Sorry, Dale, no plane ticket to the Caribbean this week.
Thanks all for some really helpful suggestions.
 

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#22 ·
I believe that the gold stuff is Copper Grease, which I used to swear by in the UK when every fastener on a car would otherwise sieze solid in less than a year, due to the constant onslaught of water and salt. Aluminium to steel joints were particularly problematic. In California I still use it but the need is not so great.
 
#24 ·
Sometimes you've just got to say "No more Mr Nice Guy"

Drill a hole right through the shaft. Insert a long bolt. Apply upwards pressure on the bolt (hit with lump hammer upwards), while applying constant pressure (line around the bolt, pull on it with the main halyard). I bet it will come off.

I also think there might be scope to clamp a bearing puller under the grooved part of the shaft, and then proceed as above.
 
#30 ·
Don't worry so much about slathering on the anti-seize, just service the things annually and they'll always be free.
 
#39 ·
Honestly, I feel like a dope. It is one of those incredibly useful tools, that sits in the locker for years, until the right sort of job comes up. But being a relatively new tool, all it's possibilities aren't always apparent.
The one we have is like the FEIN MultiMaster, mentioned by gptyk.
 
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