running backstays vs intermediate backstays - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 08-06-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
kwkrall is on a distinguished road
running backstays vs intermediate backstays

I am looking a purchasing a cutter rigged boat, I've noticed that some have running backstays, while others have fixed intermediate backstays. As someone who will be singlehanding most of the time, I am wondering about being able to tend to the running backstays as well as the sails while tacking/jibing. My previous experience with running backstays was on an inland lakes racing boat that required the backstays be changed with each tack as well as each jibe. Will this be the same issue on the cutter (except of course that tacking/jibing wouldn't be occuring with the same frequency as on the racing boat)?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 08-06-2006
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,478
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
"fixed intermediate backstays.."
I'm not sure what you have in mind, there's permanent backstays, running backstays and no backstays... but never heard of internediate. perhaps you have aft lowers in mind?

Whatever, my advice for your intended use is to avoid any boat requiring running backstays. Who needs the aggravation unless its spread over the race crew? Furhermore, if you want to singlehand, why mess with a cutter rig, that's just give you another set of sheets to mess with. You need to look hard to find a real cutter rig to begin with,,an even harder to find running backs, probably 19 out of 20 boats on the market have neither...

Why a cutter?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 08-06-2006
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,791
Thanks: 2
Thanked 97 Times in 94 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Running back stays? Chinese fire drill. Too much to do, and if you miss it--you can lose the rig. Personally I'd avoid them unless I was on a racing boat that NEEDED them for the performance gain.

If you're looking at a used racing boat (often "cheap" because they are no longer competive from rule changes or whatever) it might be worth asking a rigger if they can make other changes to compensate, and lose the running backstays.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 08-06-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I'd agree that in bad conditions, it is far too easy to make a mistake with running backstays that could cost you the rig. If you're not going to be racing full-time with a very dedicated crew, then avoid the running backstays at all costs.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 08-07-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South Africa
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Soutie is on a distinguished road
I agree with the opinions above but for the sake of discussion I believe there is one instance where, even when sailing shorthanded, that backstays are worthwhile and that is where the rig is designed to provide one with a removable inner forestay, supported by the removable backstays. This allows you to roll away the large headsail and set a staysail or storm jib in severe weather. Thus providing a much more efficient sailplan for heavy weather beating than a much reduced roller furled headsail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 08-07-2006
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,478
Thanks: 6
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
An inner forestay, removable or not, should not require running backs if the mast/rigging is appropriately designed, i.e not too spagetti-like. My boat has a bendy mast configured with a removable inner forestay/storm sail and no running backs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 08-07-2006
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,632
Thanks: 5
Thanked 101 Times in 77 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
I think you all have missed the mark here. Most cutters that are intended for offshore require running backstays that are run from the position of the jibstay on the mast aft to the deck or rail near the transom. For the most part, these runners store by the mast and are only used in very heavy conditions and have a geometry that allows the mainsail to be tacked (when reefed) without having to release and trim the runners with each tack. These runners prevent the staysail luff from sagging and in doing so keep the staysail from powering up in a blow when it needs to be flat.

Any mast uced on a cutter that is so stiff that it will not require runners in heavy going is going to be way to heavy compromising stability and carrying capacity.

Other than that I agree with the statement that sloops, are generally more convenient to single-hand, especially if they are fractionally rigged where you have smaller headsails and can get by with a smaller sail inventory since headsails on fractional rigs generally have much wider wind ranges.

Jeff

Last edited by Jeff_H; 08-07-2006 at 12:48 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 08-07-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 24
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sailphoto is on a distinguished road
I agree with most posters. Unless you have a crew, do not consider running back stays. They are critical and if you forget them or accidentally jibe you could KO your rig- not worth it. As for sailing a cutter single handed I am all for it. I sail onesingle handed and love it, but part of what makes my boat manageable is that I have roller furling on the genoa and my staysail is club footed and self-tacking. Because of the inner stay, my genoa will not blow through making the roller furler convienent. The staysail pretty much tends itself. I like the cutter rig for its' versatility. I am able to trim out the sails in most conditions so the boat is balanced and efficient. In heavy weather I can put a reef or two into the staysail ( although I have never had to do this, the staysail alone is quite small). I expect that every boat i will ever own will be a cutter.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cutter rig vs. sloop rig Akacake Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 12-17-2009 02:13 AM
New to Sailing, please Help =) xyris Learning to Sail 19 11-17-2008 09:30 AM
LED''s vs. Incandenscent Bulbs for Running Lights?? Cap'nJeff Gear & Maintenance 7 07-30-2006 05:44 PM
Sloop vs. Fractional Sloop vs. Cutter Epiphany Boat Review and Purchase Forum 25 02-05-2004 10:27 PM
diffrent rigs? (schooner, ketch, cutter, sloop) jbarros Boat Review and Purchase Forum 2 07-09-2003 05:10 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:24 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.