12v Appliances - Good/Bad/Ugly? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 09-05-2006
Shack's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 199
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Shack is on a distinguished road
Question 12v Appliances - Good/Bad/Ugly?

What 12v appliances are a waste of what would otherwise be good amperage?

I am planning an electrical system for a future boat. I'm finding many 12v versions of common household items such as washers/dryers, micowaves, fridge/freezers, etc. However, I have no experience with their actual performance. Inverters are always an option, but 12v appliances seem so simple. From which appliances should I steer clear?

-Shack
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 09-05-2006
pigslo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 804
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
pigslo is on a distinguished road
I had a 12 volt coffee maker that I threw in the dumpster after it took too long to brew a pot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 09-05-2006
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 110 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
My opinion:

You are probably better off dropping in a good inverter, like a Xantrex Prosine with a true sine wave. Sailnet has them for $7XX dollars, I think. Seems like a lot of money now, but a good sine wave is easier on most components, and it is easier to go throw the switch and just plug in whatever you want. Maybe it is even cheaper that way in the long run????? Others might be able to answer that better.

Most things on a boat run on 12V though. My only caution is that it is really easy to suck down a battery with a inverter if you are not careful. Watch your juice!

Take care.

CD
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 09-05-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
A lot of the 12V appliances are poorly engineered and designed. In many cases, even though it isn't theoretically as efficient, it may make more sense and be less problematic to get a larger battery bank and use an inverter. It sounds like you're planning on a fairly large boat, so the inverter and large battery banks shouldn't be much of an issue. Anyone talking about a washer/dryer setup isn't talking a small boat.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 09-05-2006
Shack's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 199
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Shack is on a distinguished road
Big Boat?? Yes, sir. I'm on a long term plan to build a dream boat. I'm starting small but plan to finish big in the next 4-5 years. I was hoping for some design simplicity by reducing the AC footprint.

C-Dad's recommendation on the $700 inverter may be simpler as well as a more economical solution in the long run. Most of the 12v products I have found cost about twice as much as their standard AC counterparts. I'm not sure if they're ruggedized for marine environs, either.

Thanks for the input.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 09-05-2006
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Shack...the inverter is the ONLY way to go. I disagree with the pro-sine recommendation for extended cruising as the idle amp usage is prohibitive. Suggest modified sine-wave like Heart and if you need pure sine wave for sensitive electronics then get a small pure sine. Most items that "prefer" pure sine waves are charging applications and require little amperage or can be charged from 12V adapters.
Our Heart 2500 runs everything from microwave to flat screen and we have yet to need a new adapter for anything. Made by Xantrex just like the pro-sine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 09-05-2006
Shack's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Annapolis
Posts: 199
Thanks: 6
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Shack is on a distinguished road
Now I'm really interested. I'm aware of square waves produced some inverters and have watched sailors argue about good, better, best . . .

The true sine wave seems better for the hardware , but the square and stepped wave inverters sound like they are more efficient (% amps used). If I am correct then I guess that is the great paradox.

I have read where equipment sensitive to and prefering the true sine wave are likely to be tv's, nukers, NiCd chargers, and some types of variable speed devices. (Doc Casey's Sailboat Electrics Simplified, 1999). I some experience with inverters on aircraft for which the avionics have a need for styles of waves (to include phased sine waves). Now I find myself asking if my toaster has any special needs when compared to my laptop or table lamp. Humbling . . .

It appears that most of the gear one needs can be lumped into being supported by one style of inverter (i.e. Heart 2500)? The rest are exceptions, for which I can devise an exception to meet their needs (i.e. Prosine).

Thanks for showing me the fine print. This helped.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 09-06-2006
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Shack...the Heart is a "modified" sine wave device so it is probably tolerated a lot better by some devices which don't like the old square wave inverters. From 5 years of cruising with 2 different Hearts on 2 different boats, I can say that CURRENT vintage microwaves and Flat screen TV's do just fine with them and they also do a great job of charging my 1100AMP house battery bank! We also run the toaster oven, "Mr. Coffee", computers and hairdryers from the Heart with no problems.

As you design your system for cruising you will need to have a lot of focus on your battery system and charging system and there are lots of threads here and on the SSCA.org board that can provide good technical advice. I would only add that whatever you decide on for a system that will meet your needs....get yourself a LINK 2000 to monitor it and understand what is going on daily with your charge/use/re-charge cycle. Really is invaluable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 09-06-2006
Surfesq's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay, MD
Posts: 1,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Surfesq is on a distinguished road
Camaraderie: I am curious as to why you did not go with a generator for long term cruising? I am not suggesting one is better than the other.
I bought a DC powered Flat Screen for my boat. Also, my laptop has a DC plug.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 09-07-2006
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Surf...we have an 8kw generator but we still need AC for when we don't want to be running it. Kinda stupid to run a big gen for a little TV...makes it hard to hear too! We use the Gen to charge the battery bank through the Heart and to run the Airconditioning/Heat when at anchor if needed. Using the Gen to run an A/C hi capacity charger is much more efficient than using the engine/alternator though that is upgraded as well as I like to have backup. We use the Link to monitor the charging V & A and amp hour use.Hope that explains things a bit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
12v Fans for ports halyardz Gear & Maintenance 2 12-30-2001 06:14 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:46 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.