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post #1 of 24 Old 09-05-2006 Thread Starter
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Unknown lines & sail questions

Greetings!

Brief background of myself: sailed Sunfish & Sailfish boats, n'er anything bigger. Been on a 21' as a child (and I've grown up?) but don't remember anything about it.

Background for this thread: My brother bought a '78 Bayfield 25 and I'm pitching in where I can to help out on the boat ('cuz I love to sail!). We recently (yesterday - no wind so we had to motor the entire trip) sailed it from Ragged Point over to Breezy Point Marina off the Chesapeake Bay. The whole process involved a great deal of learning by my brother, and a good bit by myself as well.

Ok, now, on to the questions. Forgive the fact I'm not well-versed in nautical terms and I'll use what I know.

1. We have two lines that hang down from either side of the upper third of the mast and end in pulleys that have leather bags covering the part where the pulley attaches to the line. The wheel of the pulley is partially exposed. The line extends to about 7.5' above deck. They easily get tangled in everything and are a huge P.I.A. We don't know what they're for and we are stongly considering removing them permanently. Anybody else out there know?

2. The, what we assume to be anyway, original jib was not adapted for the roller furler that is installed on the boat. The other jib is, but, it is huge (it isn't a spinnaker) - a genoa (we suspect, I'm not sure). However, the sail comes about halfway down the boom of the mainsail (in other words, the clew ends up somewhere around half of the main boom)! This creates a sheet problem (the sheets end up wrapping around the stays & across the mast) and don't feed well into the winches (too steep an angle), etc. I personally didn't care for the flow of the sail around the stays & masts when it was fully unfurled. Partially furled the bottom of the sail is still rather long and the head doesn't extend high enough (due to sail shape) so I believe sail area (compared the original jib) is lost. At any rate, is this sail indeed too big for this boat as rigged? Should we install additional winches/cleats at the rear to accomodate the longer sail? What's the best way to handle keeping the sheets from rubbing on the stays? Any other useful opinions?

3. Does anyone know of a boat soap that can be used while moored (that is, it is non-toxic, bio-degradable, etc.)?

4. Does anyone have any recommendations for a varnish/poly that can be applied to slightly weathered/worn wood (to at least keep it from getting any worse if nothing else)?

I've attached a shot of my brother at the helm as we were coming into the marina - you can see the wooden grab-handles and get a feel for the state they're in, the rest of the wood on the boat varies from good to needs replacing.

Any other thoughts, relative to sailing, etc., are welcomed!

Thanks!

Sincerely,

/s/ Jon C. Munson II
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post #2 of 24 Old 09-05-2006
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#1- sounds like part of a Lazy Jack System
#2- not sure about this one, aren't your leads ajustable? do you have turning blocks going to the winches?
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post #3 of 24 Old 09-05-2006
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Question #1.. Could be flag halyard, topping lift, or to raise the radar reflector. What and how are they attached at the top.
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post #4 of 24 Old 09-05-2006
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Well, here goes...

1. These sound like an attempt at making "Lazy Jacks" These lines would be attached to the boom in a couple of places (1/3 and 2/3 along) and would prevent the falling mainsail from spilling off the boom before you tidy it up and put on the sail ties.

2. You are describing a genoa of some sort, but it sounds like you are taking the sheets directly to the winch. The sheets should go through leading blocks or fairleads and then to the winch. Your sailshape complaints may be simply because the sheeting angle is all wrong.
The position of these leads should be set to match the sail being used. As a general rule the sheet should be at an angle to the sail such that the extended line would cross the luff (leading edge) at mid point.
Sheets necessarily "rub" on shrouds (stays are fore and aft) and baby stays. Hangups can be prevented by placing "boots" around the bases of the shrouds. Using lengths of PVC piping placed around the offending rigging can also do the trick. This is especially true if you have a babystay forward that tends to hang up during tacks.

4. Not sure it's worth you while to varnish weathered wood - you are just making more work for when you do it proper, so do it proper right away. There are plenty of good products and practices (probably find threads on the site on that subject).

The B25s a cute, rugged little pocket cruiser but don't expect blinding speed under any conditions.

Good luck and enjoy!
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post #5 of 24 Old 09-05-2006 Thread Starter
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lines ending in pulleys:

I'll look into a "lazy jack system." Guess a Google will produce results

As for how they are attached, they are simple "bolted/screwed/attached" to either side of the main mast about 1/4-1/3 of the way down. They can't be used to raise anything higher than about 7.5 feet off the deck (maybe 8 feet, I do have to reach a bit and I'm almost 6' tall). The pulley end simply swings free in the breeze (insert bad joke here).

jib:

There are not turn blocks leading into the winches. When the jib-under-discussion is close-hauled, the clew is, oh, maybe about 1.5-2' from the winch itself (and you can see where that winch is in the shot I attached).
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post #6 of 24 Old 09-05-2006
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#1 definitely sounds like some sort of bastardized lazy jack setup. It sounds like you're missing the lower lines that go to the boom. These were probably setup to allow them to be slackened off and let the lazy jacks be pulled forward to the mast, to get them out of the way of raising the sail.

#2 definitely sounds like a large genoa...maybe a 150% or so. They may have had a separate track, so that the sheets would lead fair to the winches or they might have used snatch blocks on them. Those are both fairly common setups, but without more information on your boat, and seeing it, I can't really say for sure.

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post #7 of 24 Old 09-05-2006
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Rack your brain and think if there is anyone you know who has a little sailing experience on a bigger boat. These issues sound like they could be sorted out by someone with a little experience and a visual inspection.
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thanks all for the replies to date and in the future!

the pulleys, after some googling and looking at diagrams, do indeed appear to be part of the lazy jack system (there are pulleys and cleats on the boom for it as well). we're going to disconnect that portion of the lazy jack as we really don't need it and it just gets in the way anyway.

as for the genoa, it is indeed huge for a jib on this boat. there's no fairlead or anything else to run the sheets through to correct the angle to the current winch location.

Should we add winches astern with fairleads to compensate?

if there is anyone in the Breezy Point Marina area that would be willing to meet me and possibly my brother (its his boat after all) to go over it, I'd love it as my experience is limited to the smaller sunfish/sailfish.

thanks!

jon
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post #9 of 24 Old 09-05-2006
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There may not be snatch blocks for use as the fairleads. If they were using snatch blocks, they may have taken the blocks off the boat before selling it. Snatch blocks are very useful. However, there may still be the padeyes that were used to attach and position the snatch blocks. I would look to see if they exist.

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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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Last edited by sailingdog; 09-05-2006 at 06:18 PM.
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post #10 of 24 Old 09-05-2006
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Look AFT of your winch for a turning block of some sort. With a Genny this big, chances are the sheet was led well AFT and then turned forward to the winch. No need for new winches...but you may need a couple of blocks.
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