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Composting Head

16K views 131 replies 32 participants last post by  aa3jy 
#1 ·
Looking for a experienced and reputable dealer and installer of composting heads in the northern Chesspeake Bay area
 
#3 ·
I think the biggest problem of installing a composting head is the removal of the existing holding tank & hoses if there is one. Installing a compositing head consist of
securing the head to the sole then ventilating the holding bucket.
 
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#4 ·
I too am looking at this as an option. Unfortunately our PO didn't have a holding tank installed so we are distinctly illegal until we fix it. Before anyone jumps on me, we don't use the head. At this point, it is remove the plumbing and replace with a composting head or add a holding tank. I'm leaning toward the composting head. My only issue is the height of the two most popular composting heads, we'd need a step stool!
 
#21 ·
We had similar concerns, but instead of the step stool option (many people build small "foot pads") we were able to lower the floor where the Air Head sits. it's still higher than a household toilet, about like using a toilet in a handicap stall. But it's a small price to pay for the convenience.
 
#9 ·
They're great! The maintenance is so simple, just dump the urine container over the side (or heck, just pee over the side) and dump the soiled compost in a dumpster or in someone's yard. Guess you could just dump the compost over the side too if that's easier.

Much easier than pumping out the head at a facility designed for this.
 
#15 ·
... just dump the urine container over the side ...... Guess you could just dump the compost over the side too if that's easier.......
Both are explicitly illegal, within an NDZ.

Unless the compost was left to aerate for a long time, after it's last use, there's plenty of "fresh" in there too. No different than directly flushing a head or pumping a holding tank overboard.

I'm not a big fan of composters aboard, but certainly don't object to others using them. Instructing unfamiliar guests to do their #1 and #2 in separate places, mix in their own waste, clean the bowl of stains, likely even tell them to put their used paper in a separate bag, etc, just doesn't work for me. It does for others. While I don't believe it's common, they have also been known to attract bugs.

Regardless, you must still dispose of your waste properly or I see no difference to just flushing overboard.
 
#10 ·
What others have said; install is pretty easy. Removal of existing head, holding tank, and related plumbing is the largest challenge.

When we shifted to a composter I actually left the existing holding tank and plumbing in place for a season. I wanted to make sure the composter (in this case a Nature's Head) would perform as promised. The following season I ripped all the hoses and tank out, and would never go back.
 
#11 ·
We have owned all three of the popular brands and they all have their positive aspects. If height is a problem check out the C-Head. I believe they are more compact than the other two but need changing the solids more often, which has its positive and negative aspects as well. We have owned composters for 10 years and would never go back to the traditional marine setup.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#12 ·
Are any of you who have these heads full time liveaboards who travel some? I've heard they aren't very good if you are actually sailing and that they can't handle more than one or two people over a longer period of time than a day or two.
 
#14 ·
Capta, in my experience with the Nature's Head, it's fine for 2 people full time. I once spent a month with 4 on board and I found that the solids didn't have a chance to dry out very much (turning the handle became harder) and I had to empty it afer the month. I think 2 users is fine, and probably ideal. The composter really shines for weekend users as the solids dry out during the week. I think you could easily go 6 months before dumping with just weekend use.
The installation is simple, but tearing out the old system could be some work (as mentioned aboe). Another thng is the height. Often marine heads sit on a little platform which can be cut away to lower the mounting surface of the composter. This is on my "to-do" list. In the mean time, the height hasn't proven to be an obstacle at all. I think that 99% of people that install a composting toilet would say they'd never go back to a marine pump toilet. I certainly wouldn't!
 
#16 ·
Minne, it's not the same as "just flushing overboard". With a composting toilet you have more disposal options than you would with a holding tank. You can dump it overboard where legal (offshore), bring it into the woods and dump it under a tree (which I do), bag it and dispose of it accordingly. Also, when a composting toilet is "full" it's not an emergency like it is with a holding tank, which won't accept any more waste. The urine, where legal, can be dumped overboard, which is not a problem. Urine is essentially sterile (water, urea and some salts). Also, it's not any more complicated for guests than a pump toilet (with its valves, pump handle etc.). They are really quite simple to use and I've never had a guest screw up. If you've never had one on board, it's hard to understand the simplicity of a composting toilet and the advantages. Those who have installed them don't look back in 99% of the cases. Keep an open mind about them.
 
#23 ·
Minne, it's not the same as "just flushing overboard".
I was referring strictly to the implication that a composter could be dumped where a holding tank could not. No such place. I bet most do dump their pee bottles where they aren't allowed.

..bring it into the woods and dump it under a tree (which I do)
Let us all know which tree has raw feces under it. Your last deposit is not likely composted at all. Would you drop your shorts and go next to that tree?

....bag it and dispose of it accordingly.
It's really the only good method, IMO. Of course, if it's a plastic bag, that's a shame.

The urine, where legal, can be dumped overboard,
Are you saying there is a place where urine is specifically legal? None I know of. Where you can legally dump your urine, you could flush a traditional head straight into the same water, #2, paper and all.

Also, it's not any more complicated for guests than a pump toilet (with its valves, pump handle etc.). They are really quite simple to use and I've never had a guest screw up.
It's not that it's complicated. It's how well some will take to the idea. Let's not be critical of how people feel about these personal things. I don't care one way or the other, but I am aware that many of my guests would find it objectionable.

If you've never had one on board, it's hard to understand the simplicity of a composting toilet and the advantages.
I acknowledge their advantages, but their weaknesses as well. While I've not used one aboard, I have in camp sites. They are great, when there are no other options. I've also used outhouses, porta-potties, etc, but most would not like them aboard either.

I suppose, if I was alone on a long cruise, I would take to the idea of the simplicity. However, entertaining significantly (probably 100 guests per season) makes them undesirable to me.
 
#18 ·
If you're a little shy about explaining the use of a composter like Minnewaska is above, you can always do as I did and have Vista Print or some other printer create a cling sticker with instructions on the proper use of your composter and place it in a conspicuous area inside the head. This large cling cost about $3.50 with shipping and gives your guests something to read while taking care of business.


Also I'm not sure why Minne would be concerned about "stains" at least when it comes to the AirHead since when using it for #2 you open a big trap door and allow everything to drop into the holding tank below. When finished close the trap and everything should be pristine. I have no regrets installing our AirHead and would never go back to the old system.
 
#25 ·
We are full time liveaboards/cruisers and just came back from the Bahamas. We love the dry head( well as much as you can love a head).
Pros
No hoses, no stink, easy to sanitize the whole system.( I'm a germaphobe).
There is no issue under way except I do not allow the pee tank past 2/3 full to avoid spills. Even in the heat of a Bahamian summer we did not have bug or odor problems. As long as you think of the head as a dry head, you are not composting in the traditional sense ( using microbes to break down the poo), you are drying the poo out (desiccating, denying microbes to live and breed) using good dry peat. I like to add poo powder to help speed up the desiccation process since we empty the poo tank around every 10 days( it can be as often as 1 week, or as long as a month).

Cons
*Cruising, we use a lot more peat then I estimated( 1 gallon of peat a month, Ha!). Cruising we use a gallon of peat every 10 days, sometimes every week. The high humidity in the tropics requires more peat to properly desiccate. We do not have a vent or agitator, so that may be a factor. Poo is 75%ish water so dry it out, not ugh to dispose of.

*Pee disposal is the challenge . We all are so focused on the poo, that's easy. Humans generate about a gallon a day of urine. So lugging urine to the pump out, bathroom, etc, can be a pain. In key west the free pump out boat has a wand that will pump out a jerry can we have on deck for urine tank disposal. So ask your free pump out service if they have a wand. That was the most convenient. If we are on the move pee disposal is really not an issue as it's easy to hop out past the NDZ to empty the pee jugs. In harbor we place two one gallon pee jugs in a designated backpack and empty at the bath house every other day. Not that big of a deal especially compared to the time and effort we spent keeping the wet sanitation system going.

If we had the space and money, I'd push for the waste treatment system like lectrasans( spell? ). That to me is as close to perfect as far as convenience and environmentally friendly.
Hope that helps
Erika
 
#26 ·
...Cons
*Cruising, we use a lot more peat then I estimated( 1 gallon of peat a month, Ha!). Cruising we use a gallon of peat every 10 days, sometimes every week. The high humidity in the tropics requires more peat to properly desiccate. We do not have a vent or agitator, so that may be a factor. Poo is 75%ish water so dry it out, not ugh to dispose of.
Erika, have you ever tried coir instead of peat? If so, did it make any difference in the desiccation process. I've only cruised un north so far, but we have never got less than a month using a compressed brick of coir. In the summer the southern Great Lakes can be incredibly humid, although I assume it's not as moist as what you deal with.

I would think an external vent would also make a big difference in the drying process. Are you planning to put one in?
 
#27 ·
I try to only use CocoTek coir, just works so well. I have used off brand coir and my only issue is it is more difficult to reconstitute.( don't know why..?)

Adding a vent is on the list, but our head works so well, the project is at the bottom of the list :). I put a layer of poo powder down at every new clean tank. WAG bags are especially nice to use as tank liners. But this would only work if you do not have an agitator ( though a c-head may be able to be lined).
Hope that helps. Will be offline till tomorrow ( I think) so may take a while to reply to any questions.
Happy New Year!!
Erika
 
#32 ·
We have owned 3 different types of composters over the last 9 years and had experiences with both holding tanks and Lectra Sans for about 17 years before we got the first composter. All I can state is my opinion and there's no doubt, for us, the composting toilet is the way to go for various reasons. But beware, my opinion may not hold any value as we used to own a mono but since owning a variety of multihulls for the last 20+ years, we would never go back to a monohull!
 
#38 ·
Part of the design problem is obviously the reason for foul odors being emitted into the cabin space via the head. That flexible, ribbed tubing that connects everything is quite porous, thereby allowing any residual residue to seep through the material and into the head or cabin. Unfortunately, there is no good method of cleansing that tubing completely. Sure, we could run some detergent and chlorine through the tubing, allow it to soak a few hours then flush it out, but those chemicals would then enter our holding tank and kill any and all of the bacteria needed to liquefy the sludge in the tank. And, even after the tank is pumped out, those chemical residues continue to kill the bacteria, so that's not a viable option.

I've had serious thoughts about changing out all of my flexible, ribbed tubing and replacing it with PVC pipe, which is far less porous. Yes, it would be a major undertaking to do this with PVC, and it would require several 90-degree connections to route the pipes properly, but that alone would really help eliminate much of the odors caused by the tubing.

My tank is made of welded stainless, but the last time I looked at it, the welds were beginning to show significant signs of rust, which is a cause for concern as well. And, my tank does not have an inspection port, something I may add this winter if I have nothing better to do. As for the vented loop, that problem can easily be solved by connecting a length of tubing to the top of the vent, then installing a thru-hull vent, which I've done for some of my friends. This vents those gasses overboard instead of allowing them to flow into the head. Not a big job and very inexpensive to install.

I agree, most folks rarely pass enough water through the system to thoroughly rinse the lines, and when you do, this usually fills my 35 gallon holding tank in less than a week. Also, I add liquid Rid-X to my system at least once a week, which, hopefully, helps keep the odor level down and liquefy the solids in the tank.

The one thing I must caution everyone with a conventional system and holding tank about is frequently checking the tank's vent. Critters seem to love to invade the vent and take up residence there. This includes a host of spider species and mud daubers, all of which tend to find the tiniest crevices to invade. It really doesn't take a lot of spider poop or mud to completely plug the vent. If that vent is plugged, when the pumpout boat shows up with his high speed pump, that tank can easily collapse, or worse yet, implode. If that happens, you will have a real mess on your hands. The mud daubers liked my vent so much that after removing their nests more than a dozen times in a single year, I ended up hot melt gluing a small patch of screening over the vent to keep them out, which this far has done a reasonable job. Gotta check that screening once in a while, though, just to be on the safe side.

I'm not a big fan of composting heads. Some folks claim they are odor free, but for the most part, I still seem to be able to detect a faint odor. Additionally, storing pee just doesn't appeal to me either. Ironically, while it is illegal to discharge pee via the head, you can legally pee overboard. Urine is sterile, non toxic and pretty much innocuous. A lot of folks don't seem to look at it this way, but that a reality of life. As for dumping the composting head into a plastic bag and taking it to the dumpster, which will eventually end up in a landfill, that just doesn't seem to make a lot of ecological sense to me. Landfills are full of poo encased in plastic baby diapers, which in some areas constitutes as much as half the landfill volume.

All the best,

Gary :cool:
 
#40 ·
Mike, the most ecological way to dump the composted stuff is in the woods, off the path, under a tree. It's all organic material after all. I admit this isn't an option in a city, where perhaps a dumster is easier. Anyway, I'm preaching to the converted in your case...

Personally, I empty the urine bottle over the side every night and I have no problem with that. Urine is harmless. I don't live in the US and there are no discharge laws here. Every boat that I know here has no holding tank and the discharge is directly into the sea. I chose a composting toilet for ecological reasons and because of the simplicity of the system. I HATED my expensive pump toilet that came with the boat. Every time I came to the boat there was a smell (granted it went away after flushing). Now when I arrive there is zero odor. People who have not had a composting toilet on their boat simply don't undertand them and are prone to be sceptical.
 
#41 ·
Mike, the most ecological way to dump the composted stuff is in the woods, off the path, under a tree. It's all organic material after all. I admit this isn't an option in a city, where perhaps a dumster is easier. Anyway, I'm preaching to the converted in your case...
Oh, absolutely agree copacabana. So far I've usually managed to find a remote place to dump, off in the woods. In a few cases I've dumped into an existing outhouse (hole in the ground style). I've yet to be forced into bagging and dumping in a garbage bin, but that day may come as we move further into urban areas ... or maybe it won't.

As you know, one of the great things about a composter is that the dump-date comes slowly. It's not like a holding tank which has a definite maximum volume. It's not hard to manage or time a composter's tank dump to when it is best done.
 
#44 ·
If you desiccate the poo tank you can dispose of your peat in a dumpster with no qualms, the bad microbes are dead or reduced enough to be safe for a dumpster. Hopefully pump out stations will get on board and provide used peat disposal. This would be a good idea since composted/dry heads are becoming more and more popular, which increases the chance of people disposing improperly desiccated peat.
There are studies being done to test the viability of dry heads in dense population areas, low infrastructure areas, large floating boating communities. Googling will give you some great info if you are so inclined, just be sure you are reading about dry heads not composting heads, the difference is separating the urine ( dry head). The key to proper disposal is drying the peat out, Low moisture, not time, is the key (nother difference between composting and desiccating)
 
#52 ·
I agree. The entire US cruising community's contribution to the nutrients that flows into Chesapeake Bay in a single year is equivalent to a speck of fly poop in a mountain of pepper. Every year, millions upon millions of gallons of raw sewage are spilled into Chesapeake Bay by overflowing and overloaded sewage treatment plants, and much of this goes unreported, or played down as in the case of Baltimore City, because under state law, spills of less than 10,000-gallons do not have to be reported. And the biggies, rarely get any press, though once in a while they do as in https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/08/15/3-2-million-gallons-of-sewage-flowed-into-harbor-during-record-rain/. If every sailboat that plied the bay's waters were to dump their pee overboard, no one would likely ever notice, and that pee would probably be the cleanest waters that entered the bay. That total volume would be akin to peeing in the ocean and expecting the tide to rise!

Happy New Year,

Gary :cool:
 
#53 ·
I have been watching this since the early 60's in Frisco Bay. All the liveaboards and house boats in Sausalito were being targeted as 'major polluters' while the farms and factories in the central valley were dumping extremely toxic chemicals and pesticides in the rivers that feed the bay, in massive quantities.
Big money has lobbyists and our community has none. When have we been able to buy 'pollution credits"?
It's all just a big con, using the yachting community as the fall guy for big business and governmental pollution. Nobody really cares about our waste, they care that they can say, "See, we did something about pollution. We've forced all those yachts to clean up their act." Mean while.....well we all know who is really polluting the water, right?
 
#55 ·
Probably a different animal altogether. Most shoreside composters mix the solids and liquids and rely on a heating element to dry the mixture. The marine composters are actually desiccating heads, they separate the solids and liquids and don't have the problems of the others types.
 
#58 ·
Thinking about those who seem to get all worked up about urine disposal......wonder what they do when they're in the shower and need to pee? Do they hold it, dry off, go to a land based sanitary facility to pee?

Of course they do. To pee in the boat shower while in the marina would be wrong, and hypocritical. And according to some, even illegal.
 
#60 ·
wonder what they do when they're in the shower and need to pee? Of course they do. To pee in the boat shower while in the marina would be wrong, and hypocritical. And according to some, even illegal.
I have no idea what YOU do in your shower, but what I do NOT do is pee in it. Both of my showers use sumps and I really don't want these smelling of urine or having to clean the urine out of them.
YUCK!
I'll use the equipment designed for it; my heads.
 
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