SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Joker valve advice needed....

5K views 33 replies 18 participants last post by  Minnewaska 
#1 ·
Jabco head, model 29090-2000. Was about to order a new joker valve, the standard one has the three slits. Read an online review that stated that the Raritan duck-bill type would be an improvement. Does anyone have an opinion on the best joker valve? Part number? Is there really a difference?
 
#7 ·
Depending on the valve, I found it best to mount the valve so the leaflets are horizontal. When I had them vertical, I had some backflow. Also, it only takes a tiny particle to create backflow, so hard, high volume flushes seem to prevent this from happening as well.

Good luck,

Gary :cool:
 
#8 ·
When was the last time you replaced it and when you did, did you clean the surrounding area with vinegar and I mean soak it for a period of time and then scrape it clean. We have never had a leak and just replaced the old one and no issues again. And yes we use a lot of veg oil or olive oil to keep things lubed and running better.
as above we do not like to mix parts from various companies.
 
#9 ·
What's backflowing, clear water or sewage? If sewage, are you pushing enough clean water through, after you empty the bowl? Takes about one full bowl of clean water. Full means full, not "I'm tired and a half bowl looks like a lot of water". Gravity will draw solids back against the joker, if they haven't been cleared from the waste line. The waste line often goes straight up for a number of feet to either a vented loop or holding tank in the wall.

The standard joker valve should work fine. Mine does.
 
#12 ·
Rich,

The July 2013 issue of Practical Sailor included a very thorough article/study of Joker valves:

Joker Valves for Marine Heads

Groco, Jabsco, and Raritan valves tested for durability and chemical resistance.
In case this helps you with your research...

Cheers!

Bill
 
#14 · (Edited)
I researched this for Practical Sailor for a number of years. The project included many models and many chemical exposures and many holding tanks. A major pain. As a result, myself and several liveaboards converted to Raritan joker valves about 3 years ago.

Yes, they are drop-in replacement.

Yes, they last at least twice as long. I'm approaching 4 years, vs. prior 1.5-2 years. Some liveaboards saw greater improvement, particularly those with longer hose runs. Definitely a VERY cost effective up-grade.

Yes, they are more compatible with both oils and glycol (nitrile vs. neoprene).
Joker Valves for Marine Heads - Practical Sailor Print Edition Article

While nitrile rubber is fully compatible with oil (this is what most oil equipment uses), the Jabsco heads still contain many neoprene parts, and using veggy oil is still poor practice (synthetic grease is better). If you are going to use oil, canola and olive are better choices (less affect on neoprene). Yup, tested them all.

Additionally, your hoses may not like oil. Specifically, and that use butyl rubber are very vulnerable.

Finally, the fourth leading contributor to pump-out problems (behind not flushing enough water, flushing things you should not, and plugged vents) is using oil. Only the test holding tanks with oil accumulated any non-flowable solids.

So I don't use oil.
 
#26 ·
I researched this for Practical Sailor for a number of years. If you are going to use oil, canola and olive are better choices (less affect on neoprene). Yup, tested them all.
So I don't use oil.
A couple of years ago the admiral decided that if olive oil worked well why not animal fat. so after cooking lamb one night she dumped the fat into the head and pumped it. I found out about it later when we began to have issues. I think the fat hit the cold water and got a bit solid - we have had trouble with that holding tank ever since - and no I did not yell - it was too late by then - if I had steam I would flush the tank with very hot water
 
#16 · (Edited)
Another thing that maybe hard to determine is whether there is any torsion where the joker is seated. If so it may seat out of round so leak a bit. We have an electric head for the one in the back. Went through multiple jokers due to back flow. Loosen up all the hoses to the head to allow just a wee bit more play and leak is gone.
Nothing goes in the head that didn't come out of us except single ply tp. BTW was told single ply is the same thing as "marine tp" at a fraction of the cost.
 
#18 ·
I've had some backflow too, and odor when heeling more than 15 degrees, and am not sure if it's the joker valve (replaced over year ago) or fact that toilet, a Raritan PHII, has no vented loop. Waste line rises a little then goes left under port settee where holding tank sits, descends a little for tank. Raritan install instruction say vented loop obligatory, especially when toilet below waterline, which it is on my S2.

why would S2 do that (in 80s)?? The toilet is like it was basically when new, and hard to find where to even PUT a vented loop, but I could just put one behind toilet.

Thoughts? Is the vent loop indispensable? Or can the joker valve suffice to prvent backflow?
 
#22 ·
I've had some backflow too, and odor when heeling more than 15 degrees.....
This could be due to permeated hoses and the contents of your tank backfilling your waste lines, when heeled. How old are your waste lines? Do they enter the top or side of your tank?

p.s. the input you've already received on the vented loop is critical, but for other reasons. I would never count on a disposable wear item, like a joker valve, to prevent a siphon.
 
#19 ·
No vented loop in the sea water line, or the discharge line?

It sounded like you were referring to the discharge line, which if it only goes to the holding tank, I don't think you need a vented loop.

The rim of your head is probably below the waterline, so you should have a vented loop in the sea water line between the pump and the bowl.
 
#20 ·
If you have a vent the only back flow is from the vertical part of the hose back thru the choker valve which will ooze and dribble if it catches a hair or a bit of calcification on it's lips. No vent and the entire ocean or contents of holding tank is available. Your choice..
 
#23 ·
Yeah I think I've got to install a vented loop for the waste line at least (it does go into top of holding tank). I'm never 3 mi out and would never use through hull to empty tank.

I'm tempted to put off vented loop on intake--rim of toilet a little above waterline, and, I don't believe that side has ever been a problem.

But for the waste, Raritan manual says to install higher than waterline when fully heeled. Well, that's going to be a 3-4' rise, which makes me worry about ease of flushing, and even back flow of waste that doesn't quite make it through loop. Should I just do it that high, or is a shorter loop ok? (understand, it's actually going up behind the toilet, and will look kind of ugly, but what the hell, better than smell right?)
 
#24 ·
....Well, that's going to be a 3-4' rise, which makes me worry about ease of flushing, and even back flow of waste that doesn't quite make it through loop.
That would be a fairly normal rise. Flushing technique is to clear the bowl of soiled contents, then fill bowl with a gallon of clear water and then flush and push all the contents through. That rise will only hold about a quart or so of water. Leaving effluent in the line, is not just a concern over backflow, but your lines will permeate with sewage smell.
 
#29 ·
I have a three way valve to direct the outflow to the sea or tank. I have a seacock that closes the connection to the sea. I neither have nor need a vented loop. I simply set the valve to tank and close the seacock when not on board.

A 40mm vented loop is quite a big piece of kit - the installation must take up a fair amount of space? I've never seen one installed.
 
#30 ·
I have a three way valve to direct the outflow to the sea or tank. I have a seacock that closes the connection to the sea. I neither have nor need a vented loop. I simply set the valve to tank and close the seacock when not on board.
What happens when the joker valve fails and the tank happens to be above the head, as in going up a wave? As I understand the vented loop is to ensure that the only fluid that can return to the bowl is that between the bowl and vented loop. Please inform me if I'm totally misunderstanding this.....
 
#33 ·
Any vented tank will result in aerobic bacteria and the smell will be less than an anaerobic non-vented tank. We just happen to have the vent not on the transom but on the side of the boat not far from the cockpit area.

So for a couple of dollars, a carbon filter ensures that there are no smells and in the cost scheme of things it is a non event.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top