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post #1 of 18 Old 02-14-2016 Thread Starter
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Keel ice

Hello, can someone please help. I have an Allmand31. Water has found its way into the bilge and is now a block of ice. It has pushed the sides of the grp away from the ballast. As I knock on the outside of the keel on the outside I feel a hollow sound just in the area below that portion of the keel, in the more aft part. There are two other Allmands in the yard and it seems they have the same problem.

Does anyone know anything about these keels and how to repair them. I believe the keel is concrete and cast iron. I would rather have lead, what to do please, thank you all for any help. Frankie
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post #2 of 18 Old 02-14-2016
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Re: Keel ice

Thaw it out, dry it out and fill the void with resin.

Changing to lead ballast is not really an option - try to imagine a jackhammer inside your boat.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #3 of 18 Old 02-14-2016
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Re: Keel ice

Been there, forget the jackhammer. How about drill a hole in keel,drain ,install a plug, maybe fill with resin from bilge ,but pull plug as part of winterizing.
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Re: Keel ice

Thank you all, good ideas. I think thaw, drill, drain, dry, and resin. It seems that below about 7inches the keel is solid and will hold. With these added strengthening tips there should be no problems. Do you think that acetone or a like chemical will aid in cleaning /drying the ballast? Thank you. I love the boat and know they are well built, like tanks, as one quote stated. I believe drilling and shrink wrap for winterization may be the way too. Thank you all for the help. I am going to get the boat under shelter and really sing to it. You all are a great help! Now I have a direction, another month and this cold will be pretty much over.
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post #5 of 18 Old 02-14-2016
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Re: Keel ice

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Originally Posted by Wingman43 View Post
Thank you all, good ideas. I think thaw, drill, drain, dry, and resin. It seems that below about 7inches the keel is solid and will hold. With these added strengthening tips there should be no problems. Do you think that acetone or a like chemical will aid in cleaning /drying the ballast? Thank you. I love the boat and know they are well built, like tanks, as one quote stated. I believe drilling and shrink wrap for winterization may be the way too. Thank you all for the help. I am going to get the boat under shelter and really sing to it. You all are a great help! Now I have a direction, another month and this cold will be pretty much over.
Wingman,

Draining and sealing is good advice.

I would recommend using epoxy resin [not polyester...] with a slow kick hardener to allow time for the epoxy to flow...

Epoxy will adhere to everything in your keel much better than polyester, be much harder, and allow you to do it again in the future if it something else happens.

If the voids don't close-up and become less than ~1/4" after draining, consider adding an appropriate filler to the liquid epoxy before pouring so it fills the void better and is not brittle from being too thick... [The resin manufacturers all have good instructions to follow for using which filler for what.]

You may need a series of drain holes along the bottom of the keel to drain the water. Leave them open to help things dry out and to monitor the resin flow when you pour the epoxy. [i.e., As you pour the epoxy resin, you can wait for it to run out each hole before plugging the hole [temporarily] with good duck tape. This will help prevent entrapped air and confirm the epoxy went all the way to the drain holes.

Once the epoxy is set, you can remove the tape, sand and fair it out, and paint right over it...

It will be better than new when you are finished.

Best wishes with your project.

Cheers!

Bill


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Re: Keel ice

Hi Guys, thank you. One quick question. As I knock on the keel itself it seems to become solid at about a diameter of 7-10 inches from the point at which the keek meets the hull. My intent was to drill small holes at a rough diameter just at the point at which the ballast begins to bond with the grp, and the knocking becomes rigid. Does this seem to be an acceptable method or should I drill at the very bottom of the keel, thank you.
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Re: Keel ice

Water tends to run downhill. put a hole in the lowest point.Doubt if you can make anything stick to the ballast even when dried so filling the void from the top with normal grade void filler is easy. (resin, hot tar,bunker oil ) or nothing as long as it doesn't freeze.
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Re: Keel ice

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Originally Posted by Wingman43 View Post
Hi Guys, thank you. One quick question. As I knock on the keel itself it seems to become solid at about a diameter of 7-10 inches from the point at which the keek meets the hull. My intent was to drill small holes at a rough diameter just at the point at which the ballast begins to bond with the grp, and the knocking becomes rigid. Does this seem to be an acceptable method or should I drill at the very bottom of the keel, thank you.
Hi Wingman,

I would start at the lowest point and drill a hole or two to prove to myself whether water made it down that far. [Holes are easy to patch with some epoxy...]

Work your way up to the known de-lamination spot. Leave holes open so you can see if the acetone or denatured alcohol [as a moisture remover/drier] weeps from various holes before you pour your filler.

Best wishes resolving it to your satisfaction.

Cheers!

Bill


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post #9 of 18 Old 02-16-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Keel ice

Thank you Bill, I think that's the perfect game plan. Drill to find the point of delamination. Pour denatured alcohol or acetone to see the extent to which the the ballast has delaminates. Fill holes below that point with epoxy resin. Wait until ballast and grp are completely dry, then complete with a pour of epoxy resin and void filler as Capt Len had suggested. Maybe seal with layers of resin soaked fiber glass, then reinstall bilge pump.

I think I've learned my lesson though. Drill holes as part of the winterization process, plug as needed.

Hate to keep barraging you with questions but one more if I may. The water that finds its way into the bilge has a slimy, oily, very stinky consistency. It smells so bab I fact describe it. I have recovered sailboats for CRAB, Chesapeake Region Accessible Boating and have found the same stinky material in some of those bilges. No one knew what this material was, only that it was disgusting. Any idea of what this material is, thank you all and please forgive my ignorance, I'm learning as I go.
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post #10 of 18 Old 02-16-2016
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Re: Keel ice

Sounds like oil or diesel in the bilgewater, Wingman.......look for leaks on the engine or a container somewhere that is leaking. Nothing stinks like oily bilgewater!

Andy
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S/V Everlasting Moon
1981 Endeavour 32

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