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post #1 of 26 Old 02-23-2016 Thread Starter
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Replacement running rigging???

Hi all, I'm replacing all of my running rigging bit am feeling a bit overwhelmed with the sheer number of brands, tires, and technology out there.

1985 Hunter 34 original spec calls for:

7/16" low stretch for halyards
Various sizes "yacht braid bbe" for sheets, vang, travelers etc
Doesn't say for roller furling line

Any suggestions on type or brand? Any idea what low stretch or yacht braid bbe refer to? We are trying to sail as much as possible these days but it's due for replacement. I'm just getting confused with New England Regatta, novabraid xle, polyester double braid, sta-set, etc etc etc with such a wide range of prices. I don't want crappy lines, but I also don't want to just pay for a name or assume something is better simply because it's more expensive.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 26 Old 02-23-2016
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Re: Replacement running rigging???

Effit,

There is a lot of terminology and obviously a lot of trade names, material choices, construction methods, and all sorts of nonsense that you can ignore.

Starting with a clean sheet of paper, first you need to define what type of sailing you are going to do, and how involved in making the lines you want to be. Raceing vs cruising is a big difference, performance cruising vs don't care cruising is as well. If you are willing to do some light splicing work, and I really suggest that you do, I would make one recommendation, if you just want to walk into a shop and buy it then I would make a different one.

For what it's worth, on our Beneteau 381 I am using
Halyards- 3/8 endurabraid. There are very low stretch, but pretty expensive.
Main sheet - 8mm salsa. Light weight, doesn't absorb water, nice hand
Jib sheet - 7/16 sta-set (these are the last lines from before we bought the boat) soon to be replaced with 3/8 endurabraid
Control lines - 3-5mm Marlow Excel Control
Furling line - 3/16 dyneema end for end spliced to 6mm Tenex. The light weight dyneema wraps well, the tenex is just for the part that is handled.

My general rule of thumb is that anything that won't be touched b hand is uncovered dyneema, anything I handle needs to be larger, and I use either a dyneema blend (salsa) or cover it with something else (Tenex or a specialty made cover like Flavored Ice) depending on application. But I like doing splicing work, paying someone to do all this complicated splicing can get very expensive very quick.
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post #3 of 26 Old 02-23-2016
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Re: Replacement running rigging???

For low stretch, you probably want something with a "high tech" core (dyneema and friends). For everything else, you'd probably be happy with one of the "hybrid" lines (that have a mix of high-tech and polyester in the core). Some people like something like polyester or even nylon double-braid for travelers for shock absorption. Long story short, modern lines are super nice compared to what was available in 1985, so you can just get something basic that's the right size and it'll work.

For calibration, something like New England Ropes VPC is probably okay for your sheets, and T-900 for halyards. No particular endorsement for New England Ropes, but you can use that for $$ calibration. As you spend more money, you get lower stretch lines that start lighter and stay lighter when they get wet. Unless you're seriously racing, you probably don't care.

Stumble's lines are very nice.

Lastly, you should ignore everything I said and just email Hunter and ask them.
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post #4 of 26 Old 02-24-2016
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VPC is too stiff for sheets but a good value for halyards
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post #5 of 26 Old 02-24-2016
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Re: Replacement running rigging???

If you are not racing, I think you get a good cost/performance trade-off with VPC halyards, and sta-set or similar for everything else.

The only exceptions to this plan for my 34' cruising boat are: topping life, spinnaker sheet, and reef lines. For these I use 1/4 inch Amsteel. Running backstays I use 5/16 Amsteel.



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post #6 of 26 Old 02-25-2016
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Re: Replacement running rigging???

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Originally Posted by jsaronson View Post
VPC is too stiff for sheets but a good value for halyards
I've been using VPC for 4 years on my boat in 3/8 and it's been working great. Also used it on a J120 in 7/16 as main and jib sheets. Have also used it on a 34 footer in a 16:1 vang purchase system.

sta-set X is too stiff for sheets, but VPC is a great mid level sheet.

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Re: Replacement running rigging???

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Originally Posted by Effit View Post
1985 Hunter 34 original spec calls for:
7/16" low stretch for halyards
Various sizes "yacht braid bbe" for sheets, vang, travelers etc
Doesn't say for roller furling line
Thanks!
Full disclosure: I'm a rigger that sells NER products. So I'll spec out their stuff for now. If you'd like an alternative product, let me know.

- 3/8 VPC for your halyards. May need a bulking splice at the clutch, depending on what size clutches you have.
- Sheets can be sta-set or VPC, just make sure they work with your self tailers.
- vang can be sta-set or VPC.
- I like VPC for reef lines to keep the sail flat in breeze.
- furling line can be sta-set with the core removed for the first 10-15'. 5/16 or 3/8".

These are budget options. shoot me an email if you'd like to discus further. harneyyachtrigging@gmail.com

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post #8 of 26 Old 02-25-2016
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Re: Replacement running rigging???

Just a few comments....

I never buy sta-set, ever. In its day it was good stuff, but when priced today it is one of the most expensive lines you can buy on a $/MBL basis. I haven't run the numbers in a while, but for a long time it was more expensive than heat set dyneema on this basis. Add in that it has a relatively high amount of stretch, and you needed to massively overspecced the MBL to control stretch.

This is somewhat true of the next generation of lines like VPC when compared to dyneema. But because deck hardware has a minimum size, you can only go so small before you have to start replacing clutches which changes the math a lot. In this case...

Size........line.......MBL....Cost/ft.....MBL/$
10mm ....VPC .....6,500...1.58...... 4,100
10mm.....endura..11,000..3.38..... 3,200
8mm.......endura..8,100...2.28...... 3,500
6mm.......endura..4,500...1.63...... 2,700
3/16.......amsteel..5,400..1.08...... 5,000
1/4"........amsteel.8,600...1.68..... 5,100

As this chart makes pretty clear, the cheapest line you could use is likely to be the 3/16 amsteel. But to use it with your deck gear would likely require doing a good bit of splicing work adding covers and bulking splices so your deck gear can handle it. Otherwise it's just too small. This splicing work adds to the cost (remember when I asked if you were willing to do that yourself?) and needs to be taken into account.

Next up is likely the 10mm VPC. It's probably much stronger than needs be, but if it's the smallest your deck gear can handle then it's likely a good choice. Since it doesn't need any real splicing work on the line, just an eye splice at one end.

My choice would be to go down to the smaller, 8mm endura if your deck hardware is compatable. It's more expensive, but is stronger, and thinner and thinner line runs with less friction. Endura has less stretch than VPC, and the extra strength means under similar loads it will stretch even less. But at a price premium.

I included the 6mm endura just to dismiss it. In any case where 6mm would work I would just switch to 1/4" dyneema (they are the same size) and save money.



This is a really long way to get to... If 10mm is as small as your deck gear can go then I would recommend VPC because it's far stronger than you need. If the gear can take a smaller size I would switch to a smaller endurabraid for the reduced stretch and size, even at a price premium. If you want to get serious about doing your own splices then I would go with uncovered dyneema and add covers yourself.

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post #9 of 26 Old 02-25-2016
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Re: Replacement running rigging???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Effit View Post
Hi all, I'm replacing all of my running rigging bit am feeling a bit overwhelmed with the sheer number of brands, tires, and technology out there.

1985 Hunter 34 original spec calls for:

7/16" low stretch for halyards
Various sizes "yacht braid bbe" for sheets, vang, travelers etc
Doesn't say for roller furling line

Any suggestions on type or brand? Any idea what low stretch or yacht braid bbe refer to? We are trying to sail as much as possible these days but it's due for replacement. I'm just getting confused with New England Regatta, novabraid xle, polyester double braid, sta-set, etc etc etc with such a wide range of prices. I don't want crappy lines, but I also don't want to just pay for a name or assume something is better simply because it's more expensive.

Thanks!
Hi Effit,

I don't know what might be available to you for ordering from your unknown [to me] location, but I can share what we did when we first bought our 43 ft ketch with the knowledge it needed all new running rigging.

While transiting the vessel north from Seattle, we checked in various ports for a rigger to replace all of the running rigging. While we were installing a new windlass in Anacortes, WA, USA, we found Anacortes Rigging.

After speaking with Ian about measuring and replacing lines, it was mutually agreed to just have them bring their spools of line to the boat and change out everything at the dock. They quickly and efficiently reeved new halyards, etc. right off the spools [no pre-measuring needed... line was measured through a meter as it came off the spool.]

They also spliced in recycled and new fittings [shackles, etc.] right at the dock, and were out of there in one day.

They even filled in an online spreadsheet I created as they went- which became the itemized bill. An online inventory of all running rigging documented online for future use is priceless.

The cost was about 30+% less than ordering individual lines, including first rate splicing and Wichard shackles and fittings; not to mention all the time saved through this approach.

Just another strategy to consider...

Cheers!

Bill


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post #10 of 26 Old 02-27-2016 Thread Starter
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Haha, thanks for making it less confusing guys

I spoke with a really helpful guy at Vela Sailing Supply (any experiences with them?) and he talked about what was available when the boat was built vs what is available now and send me an estimate that landed right around $900

3/8" new England vpc for halyards
Sta-set for the rest of the lines at various sizes (main sheet, Genoa sheet, vang line, traveler)
Price includes shackles, splices, and whipped ends.

Thoughts?
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