ethanol in gas - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 11-17-2006
timangiel's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 221
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
timangiel is on a distinguished road
ethanol in gas

I'm not sure if this is the case everywhere, but where I live all gasoline sold contains 10% ethanol. I am wondering what effects this may have with older gasoline engines, and what counter measures if any need to be taken. I have read that the alcohol may attack rubber engine parts such as hoses or o-rings, may disolve old varnish or contaminations from your fuel tank and cause sludge to clog filters, alter the air to fuel ratio causing the engine to run lean, and absorb water causing rough running. I recently bought a "new to me" boat with an older gas engine which is now in storage for the winter, and I will not be able to really try it out until spring. I would like to hear from someone with some real life experience, is it no big deal or is it a nightmare?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 11-18-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Ethanol blends of gasoline have a much shorter shelf-life in terms of storage than did the older MTBE formulations. This is due to the ethanol making the gasoline more susceptible to breaking down, especially in a marine environment.

The Ethanol is used as an octane booster, and once ethanol blend gasolines have absorbed enough water from the air, the ethanol will separate out and it will stop working as an octane booster. It also attacks the resin in some of the older built-in fiberglass tanks, and causes huge problems, as the resin residue will gum up the engine and carburetor.

Ethanol also attacks rubber seals, and on older engines, the seals may not be designed to resist this.

One last thing—ethanol blends of gasoline tend to burn hotter, as ethanol is an oxygenator, and this can lead to problems on some engines, as the increased temperatures will cause premature wear and aging.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 11-18-2006
jerryrlitton's Avatar
Oathkeepers member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Andaman Sea
Posts: 1,223
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 13
jerryrlitton will become famous soon enough
Send a message via ICQ to jerryrlitton Send a message via MSN to jerryrlitton Send a message via Yahoo to jerryrlitton Send a message via Skype™ to jerryrlitton
I can second what SD said in relation to seals. Some aviation engine were STC'd for use with auto gas BUT were later recalled due to some rubber seals, fuel lines breaking down due to the ethynol content. Check it out 1st.

Jerry
__________________
"Duty, that grim demanding bitch, come to call with all her nagsome sisters, would never give a man a moment of his own."

A Kings Trade
Dewey Lamdin



Money canít buy you happiness.
But it buys you a big enough yacht to
sail you right up to it!
(Johnny Depp)







To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 11-18-2006
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
BoatUS site has several ethanol articles here and since it is winter I post the following here:
October 23, 2006
NEWS From BoatUS
Boat Owners Association of The United States
880 S. Pickett St., Alexandria, VA 22304
BoatUS News Room at www.BoatUS.com

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Press Contacts: Scott Croft, 703-461-2864, SCroft@BoatUS.com

What You Need To Know About E-10 Ethanol Fuel

And Winter Boat Layup

This spring and with little prior notice, recreational boaters in most parts of the country were introduced to gasoline containing higher concentrations of ethanol, a corn-based additive that replaced a known carcinogen, MTBE. The new fuel, dubbed “E-10” for its 10% ethanol content, unfortunately has the ability to attract greater amounts of water and “phase separate,” or form two separate solutions in the gas tank, usually over a long period of time. Once this happens, the engine won’t run and internal damage could occur.
With the lengthy winter lay up period upon us, many boaters are asking how they should store their boat over the winter to prevent fuel problems next year. The BoatUS damage prevention newsletter, Seaworthy, tackles the problem in its October issue and has these recommendations:
  • Once phase separation occurs in E-10 gasoline, additives and water separators can’t help. The only remedy is to have the gas and ethanol/water professionally removed from the tank.
  • With any fuel that sits in a tank for a long time, it’s important to add a stabilizer. But understand that stabilizers do not prevent phase separation.
  • E-10 has been a fact of life in certain areas of the Midwest for over a decade and there have been relatively few problems. The best practical recommendation learned from marina operators in the region is to top off a boat’s fuel tanks to about 95% full, leaving room for expansion. A tank that is almost full limits the flow of air into and out of the vent, which reduces the chance of condensation adding water to the fuel. Draining fuel tanks of E-10 gas, while completely eliminating any chances of phase separation, is potentially dangerous and an impractical solution.
  • Whether you believe your boat’s fuel tanks are half full or half empty, leaving a tank partially filled is a bad move. A Midwest marina owner confirmed that phase separation problems typically occurred when boats were stored over the winter with tanks only one quarter to one-half full. In the summer, infrequently used boats with partially filled tanks are also prone to phase separation.
  • Never try to plug up a fuel tank vent to prevent moist air from entering a tank. Without room to expand, the additional pressure could rupture fuel system components.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 11-19-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
abj87 is on a distinguished road
When mixed with non ethanol gasoline it will gel up and plug the fuel filters, don't ask he how i know!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 11-20-2006
seeker
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: western canada
Posts: 74
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
feetup is on a distinguished road
Ethanol blend

As far as running lean goes...The stoiocheometric ratio (the ideal ratio of air to fuel, by mass) for gasoline is about 15:1 for perfect burning, and that of ethanol is closer to 13:1. With 10 percent ethanol your mixture will be lean, but IMHO most older engines with relatively primative carburetors tend to run somewhat rich in the first place. Alcohol burns much cooler than gasoline if pure alcohol is used, although when used as an oxygenator in a motor fuel this effect is pretty much negated, but suffice it to say that it will not burn hotter to the point that it will harm exhaust valves or spark plugs. As the others have said your biggest problem will be the hydroscopic tendancies of the ethanol and subsequent phase separation. MTBE, a butyl ether which was used as an oxygenator and an octane booster was used to replace tetraethel lead, but the health risk factors are every bit as unpleasant.(Cancer or heavy metal poisoning?...now let me see....) Alcohols are not without thier own drawbacks since incomplete burning will produce aldahides, but they stand to be the lesser of the evils at the moment. They may be good for the Midwest farmers as well, and they need all the help they can get.
At any rate there is no choice in the matter so follow the recomended precautions and look after the fuel system and you will be OK.

Good Winds
Feetup
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 11-27-2006
resdog's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
resdog is on a distinguished road
I haven't had any problems running it in a 1975 CorrectCraft with a small block Ford. That's pretty old. I did replace all the fuel lines with new USCG approved fuel line. The old carb didn't care one way or the other.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gas Vs. Deisel (are we crazy?) 808state Seamanship & Navigation 31 07-31-2007 10:32 PM
Ethanol or butanol as marine fuel glboatr General Discussion (sailing related) 2 04-28-2007 06:06 PM
gas vs diesel reid5009 Living Aboard 1 02-07-2003 12:43 PM
Gas vs. Diesel (are we crazy)? 808state Boat Review and Purchase Forum 6 01-20-2003 07:23 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:05 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.