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  #1  
Old 12-01-2006
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Winch O'haul Question

Hi,

Can I rebuild the Barlow 19 Winches on my O'day 272 using Park bicycle bearing grease from my shop or do I have to spend more of my hard earned $ on special grease.

Rich
NYC
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Old 12-02-2006
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Rich-
Bicyclists have pioneered some advanced lube products, but I don't think any bicycles are designed to operate under the same conditions of load and environment as boats. Find out what Barlow claims the specs are for their winch grease, find out the specs for the Parc grease, maybe even ask Parc about salt water and displacement. Odds are the bicycle grease is meant to be washed away, so it takes dirt away with it, as opposed to being designed like the winch grease to stay put in a closed place, despite salt and water.

But who knows...sometimes you get a pleasant surprise.

Considering the price (both time and parts) for winch overhauls, I think I'd invest in the best lube I could find for them. Considering the amount you need and how often you need to use it, that still shouldn't be a big dollar difference. I'm told the closest conventional grease would be automotive wheel bearing grease, although that's also a different product in that it is designed to resist high heat. It's also a mass market [read: inexpensive] product even for the better brands.
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Old 12-02-2006
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Actually, the loads on the hubs of bicycles aren't all that different from those on the a winch... the conditions that a mountain bike are exposed to are fairly close in terms of how hostile they are for the components....while there isn't as much salt (though on city streets this may not be true) there is considerably more dust, dirt, sand, and debris than is generally encountered by a winch on a sailboat. The ocean is a fairly dust-free environment.

I would still check for what the specifications of the recommended winch grease are and I am willing to bet that the Park grease you are looking at using is probably above those specifications.

One thing that people seem to be ignoring, a bicycle wheel is under far more of working load than winches, which aren't used to the same degree. On a sailboat, the winches are generally in use half the time you are under sail...since there are usually two sets, and a given set is only used on a specific tack...the wheels of a bicycle are often used and subject to worse wear and tear, given the shock loading that can happen, especially with a mountain bike. Heat isn't generally an issue for either winches or bicycles. Bicycle grease is not designed to be washed away... at least none of the ones I've used and are are formulated to be used in a locations that are closed, exposed to salt, sand, dust, dirt, and water....at least in the case of mountain bikes.
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Old 12-02-2006
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We are only talking 12 or 13 dollars for winch grease. Given that I'm not sure why this is up for discussion.
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Old 12-02-2006
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sd-
"Bicycle grease is not designed to be washed away... " I'm thinking abiut external greases, i.e. for the gears and chain. Last time I heard, if they trapped dirt and grit that caused problems, so the greases were designed not so much as to be washed away, but to easily wear off and wash off--in the theory that "no grit but no grease" does less harm than "grease with grit".

Dunno, that's just what I was last told.
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Old 12-02-2006
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Hellosailor

Notice Rich asked about bearing grease from his bycle shop, not chain lube. Two totally different critters.

Charlie
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Old 12-02-2006
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I may be wrong but grease is for use on ball bearings. You use a "lube" on your bicycle chain. Being this is a sailing forum I will not go into bycycle maintainence. I tried to find specifications for winch grease to compare to Park bearing grease but could not find any. I would pay the few extra bucks for a grease supposedly designed for winches.
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Old 12-02-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
sd-
"Bicycle grease is not designed to be washed away... " I'm thinking abiut external greases, i.e. for the gears and chain. Last time I heard, if they trapped dirt and grit that caused problems, so the greases were designed not so much as to be washed away, but to easily wear off and wash off--in the theory that "no grit but no grease" does less harm than "grease with grit".

Dunno, that's just what I was last told.
I was a bicycle mechanic for many years, and can tell you that only a very bad mechanic would use grease on chains and gear.

Grease is a thick lubricant designed for use in bearings as a general rule. Chains and gears on a modern bicycle are not greased, but are generally treated with a dry film lubricant, which is quite similar to Boeshield T9. In fact, many cyclists I know who also sail, use T9 for many things on their bikes and boats.

While I'd agree that "no grit and no grease" is better than "grease and grit"....When I was worked in the bicycle shop, I'd fire any mechanic that was dumb enough to use grease of any kind on a chain or the exterior of the chain rings or free wheel gears. Grease is also thick enough that it can hinder performance if too much is applied.

I think the major difference between winch grease and a bicycle grease may be the composition of the anti-corrosion additives used. But some of the bicycle grease compositions are fairly good as bicycles hubs and bottom brackets, especially on mountain bikes and those used by bicycle messengers, see a fair amount of grit, water and often, salt.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Last edited by sailingdog; 12-02-2006 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 12-02-2006
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Yeesh..use a white lithium grease on load bearing parts and bearings, a lite oil on pawls. Following are details

GREASE - Lewmar manufactures special winch grease but white lithium or a synthetic grease is also OK. All of these greases shed water and adhere to the components. However, use the grease on the bearings only, not on the springs/pawls. The pawls require a light oil (automatic transmission fluid) to operate quickly so the winch can function properly. Grease on the pawls will make them stick so they can't bottom out between the teeth. There are many people who advocate dry pawls in the interest of rotational speed and to prevent dirt accumulation. For the same reason they use extremely light grease on the bearings, spread sparingly, so they can operate down to freezing temperature.

Couresty of http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/23..._tips/f29.html
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Old 12-03-2006
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I have old Barients and I am using the waterproof grease that is sold for boat trailer bearings. It is cheap, waterproof, and says on the package that it is suitable for all kinds of marine equipment.
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