is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 19 Old 09-26-2016 Thread Starter
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is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

I came across great deal on a Chartplotter, the Garmin EchoMAP 74sv on sale at the GPS Store (no affiliation, but very happy customer).

But it only supports NEMA 0183. I understand that NEMA 2000 is faster and better designed. easier to run the network, more standards compliant, etc.

So Im wondering if a NEMA 0183 device would be a deal breaker for you?

I intend to interface the Chartplotter with my VHF (B&G V50). Over the network I will want:
- the VHF to obtain position information from the chartplotter
- The VHF to send AIS information to the chartplotter so that it can display targets.

I assume that NEMA 0183 can do all that?

Will I regret getting a NEMA 0183-only device?

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post #2 of 19 Old 09-26-2016
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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

NMEA0183-only would be a deal breaker for me and our usage, but for your stated intentions it will work just fine as long as the chartplotter supports 38400 baud for the AIS (and assuming it supports AIS - I don't know anything about it).

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post #3 of 19 Old 09-26-2016
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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

Go to the web sites for B&G and Garmin and download the manuals and check the specs.

If the two will talk to each other and do what you want go for it.

Just understand that you may be limited on adding other instruments later on.

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The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective." - Henry David Thoreau
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post #4 of 19 Old 09-27-2016
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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

As Mark mentions, AIS will require a 38400 baud 0183 connection. The V5 has an NMEA0183 port that will talk at that baud rate (per the manual) but you'll have to use the Garmin's internal GPS antenna to feed the position data to the V5. The only external GPS antenna the Garmin can use also requires 0183, so that's out.
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post #5 of 19 Old 09-27-2016
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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

Keep in mind that buying any discontinued marine electronics will net you a very short serviceable life these days, if it needs repair, regardless of brand.

When the parts that are used inside begin to dry up, and they do, there becomes no repair even possible and it becomes a paper weight.. This time window, on discontinued, new old stock or refurb stuff is averaging anywhere from about 13 months to 4 years industry wide. In contrast a newer product that has not yet been discontinued will get a you upwards of 7-8 years + of repair-ability..

I see this regularly and try telling a boat owner who got a good deal that his only 14 month old "good deal" can not even be repaired and is a useless pile of electronics scrap.

Buying a NMEA 0183 MFD today is like buying a new bag phone, buggy whip or a dinosaur saddle especially when you are already asking about networking it with a V-50.

My advice, spend a few more bucks and at least buy a plotter that; 1) has not been discontinued 2) has NMEA 2K...

Sometimes good deals don't turn out as good as they may seem.

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post #6 of 19 Old 09-27-2016
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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

NMEA-0183 and NMEA-2000 are two different networking protocols.

NMEA 0183 is based on the same signaling technology that is used to connect computer terminals, and terminal emulators to other electronics. It is simple, relatively fast, and well understood by most technicians. One can also troubleshoot it with a PC with a serial port.

NMEA 2000 is based on the CAN-bus (Controller Area Network), that was developed for, and is used throughout, the automotive industry. It is relatively more complex, much faster than NMEA 0183, and (despite the name) is now becoming widely adopted.

I just installed an AIS transponder on my boat that supports both NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000. Many products that are currently available support both protocols.

I can't predict the future, but I don't think that NMEA 0183 is going away.

Think about the other electronic devices that you may want to integrate into your network. Are they available with or compatible with NMEA 0183? Most products available today are compatible with NMEA 0183. It would not be a deal braker for me.


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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

BTW - the B&G V50 is an AIS receiver (only) and it supports both NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000;
Quote:
• Access to all currently available Marine VHF Channel Banks (USA, Canada, International)
including weather channels where available (model dependant)
• DSC (Digital Select Calling) capability that meets Class D standards
• Separate CH70 DSC receiver built in
• ATIS facility for inland waterways (EU models)
• 10 weather channels (where available)
• NOAA and SAME weather alert capability (US models)
Dual channel AIS receiver built in - receive AIS transmissions (receive only)
• Choice of High or Low (25 W or 1 W) transmission power
• Special CH16 or CH16/9 key for quick access to the priority (International Distress)
channel
• DISTRESS call button to automatically transmit the MMSI and position until an
acknowledgement is received
• Special 3CH key for quick selection of your three favorite channels
• Memory channel scan and All channel priority scan
• Dual/Tri Watch capability
• Call log for the 20 most recent incoming DSC calls
• Distress call log for the 20 most recent distress calls
• Easy access to a buddy list of up to 20 favorite people
• MMSI storage for 20 favorite groups
• GROUP CALL and ALL SHIPS CALL facility
• LL position polling and Track Your Buddy feature
• Automatic position and time update when connected to a GPS receiver
• Adjustable keypad backlighting for easy night-time use
• Adjustable contrast settings for the LCD
• Waterproof and submersible to comply with JIS-7
• Rotary channel selector knob with Push To Select function
• Speaker microphone with large PTT key and 6 keys for easy channel and mode selection
• 30 W Hailer with listen back capability
• Foghorn (manual and automatic)
• Great Circle GPS navigation calculations to a waypoint (stores up to 200 waypoints)
NMEA 2000 & NMEA 0183 connectivity
• Local/Distance sensitivity to eliminate noise in high traffic urban areas
• Ability to communicate with up to two optional wireless handsets (H50)


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post #8 of 19 Old 09-27-2016
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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

Not sure if this will help but here is some interesting information

AIS considerations
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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

Yes lots of devices today still support NMEA 0183 but migration away from 0183 has already begun.

We already have a slew of instruments and peripherals that are N2K only. B&G Triton's, Raymarine's instruments etc. are N2K.

Even Raymarine's ITC5, which converts analog wind, depth, temp, speed, rudder and fluxgate only converts it to STng / NMEA 2000 not to NMEA 0183.

In this day and age 0183 can certainly work but it's sort of like buying a Apple IIe... My main concern is still, and always will be, buying discontinued marine electronics. This is by far the larger worry and I see folks burned by it regularly. Sure you can get lucky, and many do, but many also get burned and have a very short serviceable life...
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post #10 of 19 Old 09-27-2016
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Re: is NEMA 0183 a deal breaker

I hear ya, and I agree that newer devices are being designed to support N2K as the default.

But, I believe that the eS78 Chart Plotter that I just installed is Raymarine's current "latest" generation. The one I installed is happily supporting a NMEA 0183 data to enable DSC on an old iCom M422 VHF over an optional R70414 cable.


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