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Chlorine Dioxide odor control

8K views 24 replies 14 participants last post by  Minnewaska 
#1 ·
Was talking to someone recently who swore by the stuff. You mix a couple of things, which creates the gas, and it seeps into all the nooks and crannies that are unreachable to kill all mold and bacteria. While we have a pretty clean boat, it still got my attention. There are many areas that are simply unreachable to clean, such as behind tankage or cabinetry. Gas would certainly get back there with all access opened up.

I've understood that CLO2 is not corrosive. However, I also thought it broke down into CL and O2 and chlorine is corrosive.

I'm not rushing out to do it. However, if it was perfectly safe for all wiring and metals, I would consider it occasionally. Everyone says our boat does not smell like a boat. Nevertheless, when you bring clothing home that's been aboard for some time, you can smell "boat" on them. It's just not enough to detect aboard.

Any thoughts or input? Here's a couple of examples of the stuff, but even Home Depot sells it. The slow release says it's safe, while occupied. Might be good for a bilge (where said tankage lies), but no way that ClO2 is okay to breath!??

STAR BRITE Boat Bomb Deodorizer | West Marine

STAR BRITE NosGUARD SG Mildew Odor Control Slow Release System, Twin-Pack | West Marine
 
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#3 ·
For the first time, we left our boat on the hard, unoccupied, in the FL sun for 2 months. We put in 3 "Sunpacs", ( https://www.amazon.com/SunPac-Mildewcide-And-Mold-Inhibitor/dp/B007FTQWMO )which are just paraformaldehyde, when we left. We were quite surprised when we returned that not only did they prevent any mold/mildew, they actually removed mold/mildew stains we had on some vinyl trim pieces that we had been unable to remove through other various means. The bilges were cleaned of mold/mildew. They also killed all spiders and other bugs. We were concerned about that because we returned with ants crawling all over the hull and deck and spiders everywhere outside. Not a single insect inside beyond a couple of dead flies and spiders.

These don't remove general odors - they are just a mildewcide, but removes the odors associated with mildew. You also can't live in the space. Upon returning, I walked inside and almost passed out - lots of tears and choking. Only took a few minutes to air the boat out, though.

Mark
 
#8 ·
I use it religiously, year round. Started a thread on it 6 years ago now. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/70288-kanberra-gel.html

I don't believe it gets around, nor is as toxic as I'm hearing Clo2 is. I think Kanberra does a great job with preventing mold and keeping the air smelling fresh. But I don't think it gets in the deepest recesses of the boat, since they are usually closed up.

Truth is, I don't think I have a problem, but my imagination gets the better of me. I worry that areas of the boat that I'll never see are dark, damp mold factories. :) The Clo2 sounded like a nuclear and occasional reset, but I still worry is degrades into a corrosive chemical (Cl).
 
#6 ·
Olfactory silence was the trigger phrase. Over on the Nor'sea group there was/is a write up on chlorine dioxide. Here is a copy written by a Dupont

One very serious way of treating a mold/mildew infestation is to saturate the area with chlorine dioxide. This is the horrible gas used in World War I, and it's toxic to every living thing---nothing can survive exposure to it. You can make by mixing sodium chlorite with hydrochloric acid, which you can purchase as muriatic acid in a hardware store. Sodium chlorite is readily available on-line, sold as something called MMS, or Miracle Mineral Supplement.

The first thing you should do would be to remove all the loose materials from the cabin, including any rotted carpeting or other fabrics. Scrub everything with a strong cleansing solution, then rinse out as much as possible. When that's done, you're ready to treat the boat interior with chlorine dioxide. Close all the portlights and hatches securely. Be certain to use protective gloves of thick leather, wear eye protection, and at all times avoid breathing any fumes.

MMS is a 22.4% solution of sodium chlorite, so put 88 ml of it in a measuring device, then add enough distilled water to a container to make 400 ml.

Next you will need to go to a building supply store and purchase some Muriatic acid, which is hydrochloric acid. This is usually around 32%, so you will have to mix up a 6% concentration of this. To do this put 72 ml of the Muriatic acid in a measuring device and add enough distilled water to make a total of 400 ml. You now have 400 ml of 6% HCl.

Place four bowls on the cabin sole, distributed evenly from bow to stern, including the aft cabin if that's the configuration of your boat. Pour 50 ml of the hydrogen chloride into each bowl. The next step is to add 50 ml of sodium chlorite solution to each bowl. You must hold your breath while you do this! And exit the boat interior as quickly as possible, while taking care not to knock over any of the bowls!

Leave the boat interior, close it up tight from outside. It's best to hang a sign on every hatch that reads: "KEEP OUT! POISON GAS!" and lock the companionway hatches if you can. Then leave the boat sealed up for 24 hours. The mixed solutions will give off the gas, and it will not only kill any mold or mildew spores that are on exposed surfaces, it will penetrate into any sponge-like porous wood surfaces, killing spores and every other biological entity that might lurk.

After 24 hours, come back and open all the hatches. Let the boat air out a bit, then open all the portlights while holding your breath until you get back up topsides. Let the boat air out considerably more, then go down into the cabin(s) and remove the materials. (They can be diluted with a gallon or so of fresh water and poured down the drain safely.) Your mold/mildew should be totally obliterated by this. Should the problem recur, you can simply repeat the procedure.

I've used this treatment on a basement apartment that got flooded and had mildew and black mold absolutely everywhere. After I had done the treatment and aired the place out, it was really peculiar to go down in that basement and smell absolutely nothing. All biological processes give off some odors, usually benign. Since everything in the place was dead, there was no scent of anything at all---like olfactory silence.

And a 4 page pdf by Dupont chemical: http://www2.dupont.com/Chlorine_Dio...loads/K-27437_ClO2-Works-in-the-Oil-Field.pdf
 
#7 ·
The gas may not be corrosive, not sure about that, but in liquid form we spent literally millions on titanium fittings and vessels because nothing else would survive.

Since 'Chlorine' has become a bleaching pariah in industry, most bleached pulps now use a combination of ClO2 and oxygen.

It's a nasty gas, no doubt, and few living things will survive exposure to it.
 
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#9 ·
I've used them a few times. They are easy to do and seem to do a reasonable job as long as you don't have a serious mold problem. But ok for just a cleaning of a shut up stuffy boat
 
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#12 ·
Bleemus, I'm not a chemical engineer, but I do have some practical knowledge of the effects of chlorine gases on human tissue. When I worked in medicine, there were several cases that came into the ER where the patients had decided to clean their toilets with a mixture of chlorine bleach and dish detergent that contained ammonia. The gasses produced proved highly toxic and when inhaled, destroyed lung tissue to the point where the alviolar walls were actually blistered and could no longer transport oxygen to the bloodstream. We ended up placing the patients in our hyperbaric chamber while breathing 100 percent oxygen. Their stays lasted a week to 10 days before we could safely remove them from the chamber, but they had to remain on supplemental oxygen for the remainder of their lives.

Chlorine kills all living cells - all! And, it does not take a very high concentration to do this. When you have the opportunity, dip the end of your thumb and index finger in some Chlorox Bleach, leave them immersed for about 2 seconds, then remove them and rub them together. They will feel very smooth and slimy. Now, immediately rinse the fingers with warm, soapy water or your fingertips will be burned. The reason they feel slimy is because the skin cells on the surface of your skin were immediately destroyed, just the same as those alviolar cells were killed in those lungs. Chlorine gas was also the toxic gas of choice during WWII, but it frequently backfired on the Germans when the wind shifted and blew the gas back on them. And, because it is colorless, no one knew the gas was coming until it hit them.

I for one, have used diluted bleach mixtures and Dawn dish detergent to clean mildew from the boat, but I have all the hatches open and a box fan running full blast to vent the area I'm working in. Even with these precautions, I can still feel the effects because I have a terminal lung condition. If I inhale just the slightest amount, I have to use my rescue inhaler and get on my portable oxygen system.

Be safe,

Gary :cool:
 
#13 ·
I wasnt defending the use or trying to roil feathers. Just found a couple of points to be interesting enough to post. I have read that hotels will often use this to sterilize rooms. How do they deliver it into the room safely?

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk
 
#15 · (Edited)
Heres an NIH report/paper on the toxicology of using ClO2 (gas) ... and with a clear 'indicator' recommendation of keeping the (gas) concentration at or below ≤1ppm. Without entering into anecdotal internet discussions, the question becomes: how does an untrained 'consumer' insure that such exposure (even as an exposure to residual ClO2) is below that 1,0ppm threshold? WestMarine, etc. doesnt offer portable gas chromatography devices for boaters !!!
The 'potency' of ClO2 in comparison to straight Cl2 gas is about three-fold (more).
Do you KNOW where to obtain a NIOSH certified mask that will ad/absorb Chlorine at that threefold level?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3298712/

The same applies to the usage of paraformaldehyde (gas) ... but with the additional risk of an elevation in the propensity to result in the formation of upper respiratory cancers, or specific Leukemias. How's an uneducated consumer going to insure that those residual 'safe' levels (after 'airing out' etc.) are being met?
I used to use paraF for mildew control (used to make the para-F myself by polymerizing formaldehyde) .... until the newer recommendations were released, and at the time coincided with marketers ceasing the commercial offerings of Para-F to consumers - Eg. Mildew-Gaz, etc.
Ditto with 'formalin' (aqueous formaldehyde solutions).

As TravlinEasy has correctly offered .... most respiratory damage is not reversible, its 'permanent'.
 
#16 ·
Interesting points. In a typical size boat there might be about 1000 ft3 of air space, so only about 0.3 grams of ClO2 is required to hit the 1 ppm threshold. I'm guessing they hold 10-30 times that much. Common respirators are only rated to 1-2 ppm, and 5 ppm is rated "immediately dangerous to life and health." I bet levels can be that high.

It's not like it's really easy to force air through a boat. First, you have to go in the boat to open the windows. Then, in the protected air of a marina, good through-flow is not a given.

Also, given enough time, most of the ClO2 will react with (burn) the furnishings in the boat, lowering the level. This is probably the reason the levels are not crazy high. You really do need to leave it at least over night. By the way, these kits can bleach fabrics that are too close.

Finally, although there have been studies done on respirators and ClO2, how valid they are outside of a supervised program (does the respirator leak, are the cartridges spent) is unclear. Few DIYs will have a full face respirator, fewer will pull out fresh cartridges of the correct type for the job, and none will have it fit tested.

Certainly not a magic bullet. Why would we assume that some that will kill all of the mildew won't hurt us? This is the problem with all of the vapor phase approaches, including tea tree oil. Look up scholarly work on the required inhibitor dose of TTO and you will find it is well above the safe human exposure limit!! The cute boat show demo with fruit in a jar is quite dishonest--the concentration in that jar would kill you too!

A better cure is to control the humidity, IMHO.
 
#20 ·
Ants often follow tenting and fumigating a house. They're carrying out the carcasses of all the dead insects. Here's a new link to the product you mentioned SunPac Mildewcide, Protexall Products, Inc. I haven't used it, Amazon gives is a 404 Not Found. In case anyone is interested. My plan is to use Chlorine Dioxide in my 45' Hunter. My preliminary plan is: open all the cabinets, bilge hatches, leave some of the outside hatches unlatched (unless I can operate them from the deck) Run some fans so the gas goes everywhere, make two pots of ClO2, in 5 gallon plastic buckets (against spatter), position a large floor fan in the cockpit. Set off the gas, leave for 48 hours or a week. When I return, open up the hatches from the outside, open up the companion way, turn on the big fan, leave for a couple of days. I shopped around and found Safrax ODOR-CLO2 Chlorine Dioxide Tablets for Odor Removal, 1 Bag (500 grams / 1.1 pound) $42 with shipping. Seems like a good deal. This is also the stuff in Aqua Mira for purifying water.
 
#21 ·
Ants often follow tenting and fumigating a house. They're carrying out the carcasses of all the dead insects.


My plan is to use Chlorine Dioxide ...make two pots of ClO2, in 5 gallon plastic buckets ...Set off the gas, .
Ants do not following tenting. Tenting usually uses sulfuryl fluoride (or similar) which has residual effect of about 8 months.

ClO2 is not a bomb- it's "set off" as soon as you mix it.

Personally, I recommend against people mixing chemicals themselves.
 
#22 ·
I've been using ClO2 for years for the periodic treatment of my stored PCS 34, for removing the smell of cigarette smoke from a used car that I bought, and for removing the stink of a package of chicken thighs left in one of our cars in the Tennessee sun for 7-10 days undiscovered in July.

Dry powered citric acid is available on Amazon. It is an acid that is fairly safe to handle, and we have it on board for acidifying the head to prevent "calcium" buildup in our black water system. Also available from Amazon is dry powered 80% sodium chlorite (spelling matters - ite). We use little, so we buy the least we can. The method is simple. Clean up as much of the stinky mess as you can easily do. Open things up so the gas can spread itself around, prop up cushions, open doors, etc. A running fan may help. In warm weather or at least in a warm boat... Put 3/4 inch of water in each of two cereal bowls. Add 2 grams of 80% sodium chlorite to one and 7 grams of citric acid to the other. Dissolve both. Close up the boat. Put one bowl in the boat in a place where it is safe from spilling - like the galley sink. Add the contents of the second bowl to the first. Get out immediately, closing up your route out. Post a couple of skull and crossbone signs saying "keep out" until a time 24 hours later. 24 hours later come back, open up the boat, let the gas (if any remains) disperse. You will recognize the smell (taste) if you have ever used ClO2 water purification in the woods. Be aware that the first treatment will be an immediate success, but you may find that a second may be needed later when the stink returns from untreated or deeper areas.

The Star Star Bright packages are about the same thing with the acid and sodium chlorite in in something like two tea bags dropped into water. It more convenient, but a little more expensive. I've used it, too.
 
#23 ·
Thanks wsmurdoch, Good technique. Checking out the prices and the ingredients I realized that many of the kits that are sold are over priced. I could do the chemistry, but the product I found is a pound of tablets, so that should be good for a few treatments. The skull and crossbones is a good idea. My dock neighbors keep an eye on my boat, I wouldn't want anyone to go in.
 
#24 ·
My great aunt's neighbor came over to her house one afternoon. Said she was really tired. Drinking a cup of coffee a blood bubble came out of her eye. She'd mixed ammonia or **** N Span, with Clorox, (it's been over 50 years), cleaned her kitchen floor and poisoned herself. She went to the hospital and I guess it turned out okay. I warn my science students about doing this, some already knew about it.

(And Fritz Haber who figured out how to produce nitrogen for fertilizer was head of the German gas program in WWI. He recommended using poison gas because he said the effect would be horrible, but far less fatal than bullets and shrapnel. He was right. International treaties banned poison gas but not bullets and shrapnel. I think on his balance sheet are tens of thousands of people who suffered being gassed, most surviving and millions who didn't die in famines because of the production of chemical fertilizers. I'll make sure I don't join the statistics.)
 
#25 ·
I still haven't given this a try, even though I started this thread over 7 years ago. Our boat (not even the same one as back then) is very clean. However, the bilge is just impossible to fully clean. It gets wet from mast water and draining condensation from the air con units. I need to reroute the condensation to grey water boxes, but the bilge will never ever be fully dry, with our keel stepped mast.

I'll bet as much as half the bilge is completely inaccessible, due to tankage, batteries and cabinetry. We wash and rinse what we can reach. I'd like to set off a CLO2 in the bilge, but it's the area that worries me the most, specifically batteries, the engine, generator and pumps. Am I being too cautious?
 
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