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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #31  
Old 01-14-2007
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camaraderie:
Thanks for your thoughtfulness! I was thankful for the information presented as it pointed me to older posts and tests and also this new information. An informed decision is a good decision. Or at least I hope so.

Wayne
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  #32  
Old 01-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne25
camaraderie:
Thanks for your thoughtfulness! I was thankful for the information presented as it pointed me to older posts and tests and also this new information. An informed decision is a good decision. Or at least I hope so.

Wayne
I'll second your motion.
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2007
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anchors and chain

i always thought that it was the amount of chain dropped rather than anchor. i have a cqr which always held as long as i put 5x the chain out. i took off most of the chain cuz i was trying to lighten boat for racing, and yesterday the boat dragged for the first time after i dropped 2x the length for chain. wind was 25knots. i m guessing my problem was too little chain rather than anchor? i guess one can't race while maintaining sufficient chain? any thoughts? thanks
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkeith
i always thought that it was the amount of chain dropped rather than anchor. i have a cqr which always held as long as i put 5x the chain out. i took off most of the chain cuz i was trying to lighten boat for racing, and yesterday the boat dragged for the first time after i dropped 2x the length for chain. wind was 25knots. i m guessing my problem was too little chain rather than anchor? i guess one can't race while maintaining sufficient chain? any thoughts? thanks
For racing, I actually have (because they force me to) an alluminum anchor inside, and absolutely no chain, just to make the rulers happy.

I almost made one out of wood, and it would be painted grey, but then if they inspected I would be in trouble....

The only thing is don't forget to install the real anchor when you go out cruising!!! The aluminum anchor almost floats!!!
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2007
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Matt...thanks. If you want more reading, there are a lot of discussions also on the subject over at www.ssca.org bulletin board.
Keith...With my CQR's over the years, I've found that all chain is NOT the best rode. I find that about 50-100 ft. and then a nylon rode works best as all chain tends to pull the anchor out in heavy conditions when the chain is stretched bar tight. The longer nylon rode I find let's the gusts of wind stretch it without jerking on the chain so hard and it ends up staying set better. NOTE: I am not saying this works best with all anchors but it has made a difference in my experience with CQR's. With my Delta (primary) I use standard all chain with long snubbers and that seems to work so it may just be CQR's that benefit from this.

I think another subject which doesn't get much attention is HOW to anchor. Maybe some discussion should be held on how we all drop anchor and get our anchors to set and hold. My guess is that there is quite a bit of variance there as well depending on cruising grounds/anchor type and boat.
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  #36  
Old 01-14-2007
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Craig Smith (Rocna) posts a price of $510 for a 45# Manson Supreme when comparing Rocna Prices to Manson prices. You can buy a Manson Supreme 45# for $350. I know, I got one.
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Old 01-14-2007
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Cam - good luck on the RocSpaMan anchor

I guess if I had any other advice to give a newbie it would be to walk the docks, find a boat their size, and talk to the owner if he/she is experienced, how often they anchor out, and which anchors they prefer. Yacht and sailing clubs are good for that. The point being, different areas have different anchoring requirements, and as far as I know, there's no perfect all around anchor, but there are perfect anchors for some conditions. And, I'll tell ya, $600.00 for an anchor that won't meet the local conditions is a pretty expensive bow ornament. I tried to upload a picture but was unsuccessful of a chinese donut anchor used about 200 years ago. I found it on the bottom, obviously the anchor worked, the rode failed!
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  #38  
Old 01-14-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkeith
i always thought that it was the amount of chain dropped rather than anchor. i have a cqr which always held as long as i put 5x the chain out. i took off most of the chain cuz i was trying to lighten boat for racing, and yesterday the boat dragged for the first time after i dropped 2x the length for chain. wind was 25knots. i m guessing my problem was too little chain rather than anchor? i guess one can't race while maintaining sufficient chain? any thoughts? thanks
My guess would be that you have most likely not been setting your anchor and the chain and "cynder block effect" have been holding you. Anchors MUST be set and should hold your boat in reverse at full throttle period. Full reverse throttle with a sail boat aux engine is barely 25 knots of wind in terms of force. I run approx 40 feet of 3/8 chain to a 5/8 rode with my anchor and it holds perfectly fine. You really MUST set an anchor by either backwinding the sails or backing down using the motor. Using the cynderblock and all chain technique is fine in benign conditions but not with winds over 15 knots. I have watched literally thousands of anchorings over the years where there was NO setting of the anchor. If this is what you are doing don't feel so bad this is a common theme among boaters. Though not a good theme!
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  #39  
Old 01-14-2007
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Craig..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Smith
Now hold on. I don't like quoting prices as they tend to get out-of-date, but here's an exception. Suncoast Marine's pricing (in Vancouver) for Rocna converted to USD vs Hamilton Marine's pricing for Supreme:

Code:
Kg    lbs    Rocna Canada    Supreme Hamilton
4.0    8.8    $196    
6.0    13.2    $235    
6.8    15.0            $190
10.0    22.0    $312    
11.3    25.0            $280
15.0    33.1    $383    
15.9    35.0            $398
20.0    44.1    $512    
20.4    45.0            $510
25.0    55.1    $619    
27.2    60.0            $678
33.0    72.8    $725
And Hamilton don't seem to go any higher with sizes so I've stopped the comparison there.
All net prices.

"Double" seems unfair.


Ref. the testing, and construction issues.


Don't bother, the Spade is better. I'm not saying the Delta is perfect, but it's pretty good. Not to be dismissed as "just another plow" along with the CQR etc.





Perhaps the prices for the BC Canada distributor have gone down and Hamilton's up but I still paid about half for my Manson when I bought it. Hamilton offers discounts, to good customers, well beyond their catalog prices and I happen to be considered a good customer with a Hamilton Harine account. Lots of folks in my area have Hamilton Marine accounts. Now I know this is a little unfair being that I get a discount but the reality is that I'm a boat owner and bought my Manson for about half the delivered price of the Rocna. The big clincher here is that you did not quote freight from Canada or the fact they told me that with customs and ground shipping it could take a month or more to get it.

If in fact the price for a Rocna and a Manson (to the end user) is only $42.00 more on the 25lb. size than I will buy one but we need a dealer here in the North East! The shipping charges from BC are outrageous.

Craig I'm not trying to slam you here. I support the general design and have no doubt the Rocna is better built and that it performs better. I would just like to be able to buy one at close to the price of a Manson Supreme without massive shipping charges.
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  #40  
Old 01-14-2007
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For what it is worth...here's the regular price West charges for the steel Spade:
Anchor-Shade Steel 33 Only $449.99 USD Anchor-Spade Steel 44 Only $624.99 USD Anchor-Spade Steel 66 Only $939.99 USD

And here's the Deltas:

88lb $655.
55lb $450.00
44lb, $350.00
35lb $265.00
22lb $195.99
14lb $139.99
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