effectiveness of solar & wind

[LaLeLu]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

CD...no...these are not proprietary panels. They are standard 50 watters.

Oh yeah...I almost forgot...one thing not mentioned yet is AT ANCHOR where these things are designed to be used, the boat is gonna be swinging all over the place with wind/tide and current. Seems like one would have to be a slave to the panels to get anything close to max out of them.

Comaraderie, why are you so insistant on critisizing this product? We tilt our panels 3 times a day when the sun is up and once again before we go to bed (so they are facing east to catch the first sun). If your boat is swinging that bad at anchor to warrant changing any more than that, than I would guess that you must be anchored in the middle of a shipping channel - and you should probably move. The procedure for changing the panels is this: push each panel up or down with your finger (takes 2 seconds each) - occasionally, you will also need to rotate the mast (takes up to 3 seconds). If you can't tilt your panels b/c you are off your boat, then point them where they will get the most exposure for the time period you anticipate you will be gone (and yes, it is true you don't get near as much power when you leave them in a fixed position - but isn't that the point of the whole system?)

[Cruisingdad]

According to their web site:

Why were BP solar panels chosen to be used on the Solar Stik™?

The primary reason BP panels were chosen is because of their power output. Routinely, the BP panels power output exceeded their 50 watt power rating as the panels were pitched into direct sunlight. In addition, the clear anodized aluminum frame is the strongest available on the market. As a result, the BP solar panels are ideally suited for manual adjustment when aiming The Solar Stik™ toward the sun.

I reviwed independent testing (I think by the state of California). Here is that web site:

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/..._pvmodules.cgi

Though the BP panels exceeded many of the other panels in CEC rating (%), they do not show them exceeding their stated value.

[LaLeLu]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

CD-

Unless they have a radically new photocell technology, they are 50 W panels. I've looked at the dimensions, and it is unlikely that they could generate 65W per panel. I have two 130W panels on my boat btw, so I have a pretty good idea of what solar panels are capable of. I've also installed a few panels, both amorphous and poly/monocrystalline types on several boats. Also, from a manufacturing viewpoint, it wouldn't pay to advertise the panels as being only 50W panels if they were actually 65W panels. The price difference between the panels is significant, and anyone who prices them would opt to buy the ones labeled 65W panels, since I seriously doubt that they could sell 65W panels at the price of 50W panels.

LaleLu-

A smart controller makes the use of the electricity coming out of the panels more efficient...but you still lose a goodly portion of what the MPPT controller reports as heat. Battery charging tends to have significant thermal losses.

You don't get it - your fixed panels are only efficiant 1/3 of the time the sun is up. My 50 watt panels are 100% efficient as long as I have them pitched to maximum sun. So, I can get 3 x the power from my panels than you can. That makes my 50 watt panels the same out put as a 150 watt panel***.

**** Edit - I should have said same efficiency as a 150 watt FIXED panel!!!

[camaraderie]

LeLaLu...I am not criticizing. I am skeptical. You clearly don't understand what 100 watts means. I've tried to explain it but you still don't get it. Of course you see more amps at 12V than the panels put out at 17 VOLTS.

Watts EQUALS VOLTS times AMPS.
If you have 100 watts of panels rated at 17Volts then 5.88 is how many amps they put out at 17 VOLTS.
If you have 12V batteries they can't take MORE than about 14.4 Volts in bulk charging stage (run down to 50%)...so without an MPPT regulator you would lose some significant amps.
The MPPT regulator insures that the conversion from a 17V panel to a 12V battery charge is efiicient and does not waste available amperage like normal regulators would. This is good...it insures you can get close the the MAXIMUM 12V AMPS FROM 100 WATT PANELS WHICH IS GOVRERNED BY OHMS LAW!! AND IS 8.33AMPS. Reality of amp hours delivered into your battery will be less due to CLOUDY DAYS,CLOUDS on sunny days, SWINGING AT ANCHOR, FAILURE TO ADJUST THE PANELS FREQUENTLY, WIRE LOSSES, CONVERSION LOSSES AND BATTERY CURRENT ACCEPTANCE LIM"ITATIONS "IN THE FLOAT STAGE

It's nice that it is only 10:30 and you are seeing 7.5 amps. That's three hours of sunlight at less amps than you claimed already and you'll have the same on the other end as the sun goes down. PLUS this is AT THE DOCK.

Sorry...AGAIN...NOT CRITICIZING THE PRODUCT...just unrealistic expectations that you would have others believe which are physically impossible in actual use. My original comment is that at anchor in daily use one would be lucky to get 50a/h's a day out of them. I stand by that comment will not change it until and unless Practical Sailor proves me wrong.

[Cruisingdad]

Well, all I can say is this is what happened when I unplugged my 520 Watt panels the other evening:



Unfortunately, I can only put out 176 amps/day - even with my Outback MPPT and brand new clean panels. I am getting screwed. Where can I buy my Solar Pik??

- CD

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by LaLeLu

You don't get it - your fixed panels are only efficiant 1/3 of the time the sun is up. My 50 watt panels are 100% efficient as long as I have them pitched to maximum sun. So, I can get 3 x the power from my panels than you can. That makes my 50 watt panels the same out put as a 150 watt panel***.

**** Edit - I should have said same efficiency as a 150 watt FIXED panel!!!

Susan-

Nice of you to make more assumptions not in evidence. Hmm... I don't recall saying my panels were fixed... Hmmm... I don't see it said in my previous post that they were fixed... I've used both fixed and trackable panels.

BTW... Actually, I doubt you get the output of a 150 fixed panel from your 50 watt panel. If it is setup to get maximum efficiency during the mid-part of the day, it is losing efficiency when the sun is weaker to begin with... so the actual energy lost is lower... Nice try though. A properly mounted fixed 150W panel probably gets at least 50% of the power of a tracking 150W panel adjusted three times a day—or approximately the equivalent of a 75W tracking panel....which is more than what a 50W tracking panel can possibly generate.

[camaraderie]

Lelalu...just saw your latest post. You are wrong. Fixed panels still charge even when not in direct line with the sun AND due to losses through the atmosphere at lower angles you cannot triple the average fixed 50 watt panels output even with frequent adjustment. I had FIXED 160watt panels unshaded on my boat and I WOULD expect that with FREQUENT adjustment your 100 watt panels could meet or beat what I got out of those...see I DO think it is nice to be able to adjust....but it isn't anywhere close to triple since theoretical maximum for your panels is well less than double my actual maximums and you will fall well short of theory in actual use.
Stop trying to make outlandish claims based on little or no knowledge of basic electrical principles for an otherwise good product and then I'll shut up about the output issues.

[LaLeLu]

Camaraderie, I think that you should stop making claims against something w/o any first hand knowledge. Fixed panels only produce 100% of their rated watts when they are pointed at the sun. The claims I made are not in anyway "outlandish" - they are completely backed up by my personal observations. Your claims, on the other hand, are completely bull crap. You have absolutely no first hand knowledge of the product, yet you feel compelled to slam it. (and you are the moderator here???? - Bizarrre! to say the least.) Obviously, you will not agree with me, but will you beleive it when you see it in print in Practical Sailor? Probably not - you will probably argue with them as well.

[LaLeLu]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Susan-

Nice of you to make more assumptions not in evidence. Hmm... I don't recall saying my panels were fixed... Hmmm... I don't see it said in my previous post that they were fixed... I've used both fixed and trackable panels.

BTW... Actually, I doubt you get the output of a 150 fixed panel from your 50 watt panel. If it is setup to get maximum efficiency during the mid-part of the day, it is losing efficiency when the sun is weaker to begin with... so the actual energy lost is lower... Nice try though. A properly mounted fixed 150W panel probably gets at least 50% of the power of a tracking 150W panel adjusted three times a day—or approximately the equivalent of a 75W tracking panel....which is more than what a 50W tracking panel can possibly generate.

Really, so your 130 watt panels are not fixed??? Please post a photo of them. I am curious to see the contraption that you could mount 2 130 watt panels on that would allow you to pitch it.

[LaLeLu]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

It's nice that it is only 10:30 and you are seeing 7.5 amps. That's three hours of sunlight at less amps than you claimed already and you'll have the same on the other end as the sun goes down. PLUS this is AT THE DOCK.

Sorry...AGAIN...NOT CRITICIZING THE PRODUCT...just unrealistic expectations that you would have others believe which are physically impossible in actual use. My original comment is that at anchor in daily use one would be lucky to get 50a/h's a day out of them. I stand by that comment will not change it until and unless Practical Sailor proves me wrong.

Again, I have made hourly amp readings and personally seen my panels produce 84.9 amps from 7:30 am to 6:30 pm.