effectiveness of solar & wind

[conchyjoe]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

my apologies...

Accepted. Forget it.

Originally Posted by sailingdog

However, by my calculations, 80 Amp-hours is very optimistic.

I am cool with that too dog.

Originally Posted by sailingdog

You still got a lot of convincing to do

Sincerely, I am not trying to convince anyone. I stand by my signature. I don't need nor want advertising dollars. I made all the money I need during the breakup of AT&T in the 80's.

The owner of SolarStik is a super person, and a great friend. It is a compelling product that capitalizes on a simple concept.

The owner of Snowbirders Guide South, is another. So is Beth Leonard, and Nigel Calder, and Richard Kollmann. None of them have sent me any money either. Free books to review maybe, but no money.

[Freesail99]

Let's say I don't want to move the solar panels mounted on my davit. So to get the most amp hours out of them, should I buy the largest watt panels that will fit ?

[conchyjoe]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

CJoe?
"If so, where is the FTC hauling all these liars in?"
First of all, the FTC openly allows what the courts call "puffery". If I own the Campbell's Soup Company and I claim to make the best soup in the world, I don't have to prove it, the FTC will allow me to "inflate" my claims a bit. If there are a half dozen better soups out there, my claim will still be allowed.

Second, the FTC only gets involved as their budget and politics allow. That means unless they get mass complaints--you can get away with anything. If a hundred buyers wrote in and documented express false claims, they might take interest. But since there are no(?) express claims citing specific performance of the Solar Stik under lab conditions...there are no details to quibble over, either.

If I buy a Sears DieHard car battery because it advertised "great starts all winter long" and my car was a bit sluggish in the second or third spring, odds are I wouldn't call the FTC on it. Same thing with most people and most products.

Is the Solar Stik being overhyped? Dunno. Personally I suspect the error--or game--is the in the ammeter and it might be accidental.

But heck, how long did GM's OnStar division advertise OnStar in the BatMobile? And the FTC never went after them for that lie! (A lie, because you can only buy OnStar with a new GM vehicle, not in custom cars.)

The problem here, is that if you ask any prime maker of solar cells on this planet, they will tell you that you can't get the full rating of their panels out of the panels all day long. The numbers being claimed by various parties for these panels are simply out of the ballpark--which requires either error, new technology, magic, or fraud. Pick any one of the four except the new technology, because we know these folks aren't using that.

Hello, That was kinda tongue in cheek, sorry.

I agree with you on the claimed numbers. The research I was privy to showed that the BP panels operated much closer to their claims than any of the other manufacturers tested. And they are made in the good old USA.

BP said 2.9 at 17.5, and my goodness the majority of the panels actually put out 2.9 at 17.5. Not 1 or 2, but about 45 out of 50 panels. And the other 5 were within 5%.

Just don't get people started on the notion that batteries don't last, but solar panels last forever.......

[conchyjoe]

Sailingdog,

Sorry, Two 3 month old Trojan T105's connected together to get 12V. All cells tested around 1.150 - 11.80 not corrected. I did not check the temp of the batteries because I was simply looking for maximum output as recorded by the controller.

[hellosailor]

Cjoe-
Solar panels last forever? I thought they lost significant output by 20+ years, no?

But since the owner of SolarStik is a friend, why not ask him a friendly question? We all want to know about "better stuff". The only question is, what's really better.

If he would do some real homework, do some testing that showed how many amp-hours the SS actually put into a battery bank (by capacity and load measurement, not a questionable ammeter), and provide some hard numbers of the kind that couldn't be questioned...

Odds are it would sell a lot of product--if the claims were substantiated. And of course, if the problem is simply one of an error (using a DC multimeter on PCW current) then I'd equally sure he'd want to correct it.

It's a win-win situation for your friend, if he can back up and quantify those claims.

[conchyjoe]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Cjoe-
Solar panels last forever? I thought they lost significant output by 20+ years, no?

Dangit! Did I forget the smilie face again. The last debate I had with someone about power was that solar panels lasted forever. The truth is 20 years is a good number, 15 is more reasonable.

The owner of SolarStik is a pretty modest guy. The SolarStik part is very young. The owner is well known in St. Augustine and Key West, and has an unquestionable reputation. they are waiting for the PS issue to come out, and he will stand by their findings. No I don't own PS, but if you don't subscribe, three hole punch in bind every issue, as well as download the pdf to store on CD, you should have your head examined.

My testing was completely un-scientific, and I did not have the luxury of any precision equipment, nor does Susan. Only what the panel on the controller reads.

The product is already selling in many vertical markets, not just sailing.

You have to remember, he makes the stick, not the panels or controller. I don't know what testing they have done beyond what I have. That is still being worked on.

Take a look at this review of another Bluesky product, and let me know what you think. What anyone thinks for that matter.
http://www.conchyjoe.com/SB50review.pdf

Besides the ability to point the panels, this is one important piece that ties it all together. The Blue Sky controller was the best performing controller at the time, and is why it is used in the SolarStik.

[soul searcher]

H.S. look at Bps warranty 90% for 12 years. 80% for twentyfive.
Should give a good indication of life expectancy.
Ill leave Y'all to it. Personally I'm on a mission to declutter the back of my boat.
so Im not interested in puting anything else back there for the pelicans to sit on.
Matt

[camaraderie]

AMY JOHNSON...welcome aboard!
I am not going to get into responding to the others on this thread again but since you seem to be sincere in wondering whether the SolarStik system is right for you...based on what you have said and the boat you own, I would say...YES...if you can afford it.
What I would also say to you is not to believe the marketing hype and to have realistic expectations about just how many amp hours will be able to be delivered and stored in your batteries each day.
The output claims being made here for the solar stik rely on 100% conversio n of available sunlight, constant adjustment to make that so, a 100% efficient charge controller and betteries that can accept the converted output fully. Even with all this...the calculations defy the laws of the universe. Furthermore, as a practical matter...when you are out cruising, you don't sit on your boat all day, the tide goes in and out, the wind shifts direction and the sun goes behind clouds. I would be most surprised if you got than 40 A/H into your batteries on average sunny days...even making several adjustments daily while at anchor. Obviously on cloudy days you won't get much at all with these or other solar panels. I would also say that the 40 amps I quote above is 50% more than I would expect out of fixed panel solars of the same wattage rating and the same charge contorller. There is no doubt that adjusting the panels can get you more amp hours.

So...the real question for you assuming you get the stik is "will it provide enough power for my needs". Only you can answer that but I would suggest that a wind power solution may be useful to supplement whatever solar system you end up with since you can't rely on endless sunny days and wind power will work 24x7 when you have a breeze. IMHO...unless you are able to install a massive solar array AND couple it to a massive battery bank (as cruisingdad has done) you can't rely on solar alone for your electrical needs.
Again...welcome aboard and good luck with your decision making.

[conchyjoe]

Originally Posted by AmyJohnson

Good morning, all.

Well I've never done a forum before, but I am considering a Solar Stik for my boat (Hunter 27) and of course doing research on the web. (So please take it easy on me until I get a little experience at this!) There are several forums active about this thing, but this one seems to be the most active, hence my subsequent joining and participation.

The article I posted came from a disk I got with their info packet (picked it up at the boat show in MD). I only posted a portion of it because the rest was certainly an "advertisement" but I thought the "physics lesson" was worth the read. Having seen it first-hand on a boat (deck mounting version) and discussing it with him, here is what he told me: The numbers are actually close to what they preach, but "real world conditions" in Mexico were more favorable than here in the states. He cruised his Morgan down to Panama and back over the last 7 months.

What he did with his stik was mount a small wind gen on the top (didn't get the make/model) as well as several antennas.

So far I am inclined to buy it. I have seen several prices (as little as $3225 with boat show pricing to as much as $4,700 on some websites) so I guess it pays to shop around. They don't seem to sell it directly except at boat shows. I hope it is not an infringement to say this, but there is another "forum site" that has a chandlery listing for the Solar Stik at $3,450.

My biggest problem installing a solar system is that I am still stuck on mounting. I own a Hunter 27 and don't have much canvas room or transom space (arch) for a more traditional mounting system, so it APPEARS as though this will at least save me some space. I would like to have a solar resolution on my boat by May.

Sorry! I am sounding like an Ad myself. I'll go now...

Thanks for all the great info, everybody!

Welcome aboard Amy,

I would say do whatever works best for your particular situation and budget.

My H23.5 at the lake has a small Sunsei panel that sits in the cockpit and a Sunsei controller. But that is all it needs for it's two 12V batteries.

I have also seen boats that do not have a spot to even mount a SolarStik.

Whatever you do needs to work best for you. Best of luck.

[conchyjoe]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Actually, though the figures 80-100 Amp-hours were mentioned, including in SolarStik's own article

Sailingdog, I did verify and can mention that around 100AH has been achieved by the Military. However that was in the Kuwait Desert when they had about 16 hour days.

Just an FYI.