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water in the bilge

4K views 25 replies 12 participants last post by  Wayne25 
#1 ·
I'm in the habit of cleaning my bilge every few days, and I've noticed that I take on approximately 1/4-cup of water per day. It's a 27-year-old Catalina 30 with new keel bolts and a recently epoxied keel-hull joint. Although it could be my imagination, it seems like there's a little more water in there lately. Also, when I return from sailing there's a little more still. It's salt water, and it's not coming from the ice box. The engine is raw water-coolled, but I don't think that's the source. Is this too much water? Any theories on the source? Appreciate any comments.
Sailhog
 
#2 · (Edited)
We always get a little bit of bilge water trickling in from the prop shaft packing gland. A 1/4 cup or more seems normal for an older boat, but you might tighten a turn on the packing nut to see if that reduces the seawater amount. Otherwise, if pertinent to your boat, check the rudder post gland.
 
#3 ·
It is probably the packing gland on the prop shaft. If you're really worried... sprinkle some talcum powder in the bilge after drying it thoroughly... the water will leave tracks in the powder as it moves....

A 1/4 cup per day is pretty reasonable for an older boat. You should see how often the bilge pumps work for some of the power boats at my marina...
 
#4 ·
It's salt water, and it's not coming from the ice box.
How do you know? Did you taste it? EEeeehhhh!

Like stated above, the packing gland is supposed to drip so many drops a minute. But also, if you're taking water over the bow, the chain locker drains to the bilge. 1/2 cup of water is nothing. Careful not to tighten the packing gland too much, could cause friction heat.
 
#5 ·
Shaft Drips

As Ianhlnd mentioned you don't want to tighten it too much so I would check your drip rate at the dock in gear before tightening it. Drip rate is not a perfect science but I'd say 1-3 per minute is fine, 10 needs a little tightening, 20 is way too loose, and should be watched closely after tightening for a while to insure your packing hasn't gone junk for ballpark figures.
 
#6 ·
My own view is that at REST at the dock, the packing gland should be adjusted just tight enough so that there is NO drip. Do this by finding the point at which there is one or 2 drips a minute then tighten 1/8 turn. If no drips evident after a couple of minutes...that is fine...if drips...another 1/8 etc.
Check when underway that the shaft if not getting too hot to touch. and if so...back off a bit.
The water you are getting is no big deal if it is from your packing gland but given your recent repairs, you need to be sure that the gland is where the drip is coming from. Put some paper towels underneath is and see if they get wet! It is normal for the gland to drip more underway than at rest.
 
#7 ·
Same Same GI

If it is a universal engine take a mirror and look beneath the exhaust manifold and see if the freeze plugs are leaking. A friend of mine just went thru this with his Catalina. We found a crack where the keel bolts on, but after that repair, his bilge pump still cycled alot, the freeze plug popped and his exhaust line crumpled during that fix.

Fair Winds,

Bill
 
#8 ·
I am the friend that Bill Mc was talking about. I also found a leak in the head behind the toilet under the vanity. A bad water clamp had cut through the hose so that every time I opened the thru hull to flush, water ultimately found its way into the bilge! Frustration, keel bolts, manifold, freeze plugs and toilets!! I did stay on the boat this week-end and for the first time ....NO WATER!! Good luck. Let me know what you find......
 
#9 ·
The above poster beat me to it...You can use the talcum idea to confirm that it isn't some hose intake leak or even a small crack in the ball cock housing...I had that one launch and had to haul out in a TraveLift over a lunch hour to break it out and screw on a fresh one..."Plumber's Pal" self-adhering tape sealed the crack until I could get to it, and it only dripped when the cock was open, which it wasn't unless the head was in use, but still...

If you get some paper towel and run it behind cabinetry, you might find leaks or even condensation down there.
 
#10 ·
Aside from the talcum, another good trick are washable children's markers. They're like magic markers--but water washable, sold with the kiddie art supplies. You take a big thick one and draw a big arc around the packing gland or "downhill" in front of it, and check back on the next day. If water has been trickling in, it will wash away part of the line.

Same idea as the talc, but if you are looking for one specific area and don't want to scatter talc, it's a bit neater and cleaner. Also easier to see than white-talc-vs-white-hull in tight spaces.
 
#11 ·
I'd like to shout out a big thank-you to all of you gentlemen. The water is indeed coming in through the packing gland. I think the best course of action is to simply keep my eye on it and see if the dripping increases. At that point I'll get out the wrench and start making 1/8 turns. Again, thanks to you all -- TB, SD, Valiant, Stan, hellowsailor, Wimckinzie, Cam, Ian and Bill. You guys are the best...
 
#12 ·
Good enough... BTW, do you know how old the packing in the gland is? If it is leaking, and you're going to be futzing with it anyways, it might be worthwhile to replace it, while you're down there.
 
#13 ·
sailingdog said:
Good enough... BTW, do you know how old the packing in the gland is? If it is leaking, and you're going to be futzing with it anyways, it might be worthwhile to replace it, while you're down there.
I'm not sure, but I think it's a little over two years old. The cutlass bearing was replaced in the fall of 2004... would it stand to reason that it would have been repacked at that time? Thanks again, SD...
SH
 
#14 ·
Sailhog-

It is probably that it was replaced at that time, but it might be a good opportunity to replace it, since you're going to be working on it anyways. They do make a new GoreTex-based packing material that is supposed to be pretty good, and is supposed to last a long time.
 
#15 ·
Sailingdog,
Thanks again for the instruction... This will be my first "gland work," and I'm assuming it can be done while the boat's in the water. The weather's unbelievable here (sunny and 75), so I might put it off for a week or so. I'll let you know if the boat sinks...
SH
 
#17 ·
I concur with Cam..

Don't do it in the water except in dire emergency. Some one at the dock told me that I didn't need to haul out to put my transducer in. LIAR I removed the plug with the transducer ready to go in place ( imagine a 2" fire hose going off in your face) I gave that transducer CPR for the next 30 minutes or so hoping the plastic would not give way and I wouldn't cross thread the damn plastic nut and the love of my life sticks her head into the comanionway and belts out "why did you have to wait till we were ready to leave to do that" bless her heart. Never will I attempt that again except in an emergency. This happened on a Sunday and I had to get back to work, Monday was a Holiday for the normal folks, I had to work and all I could think about was holding pressure on this stupid leak I created till Tuesday. Now more intelligent cruisers will attest to the fact that you can pull this maneuver off with a toilet plunger. To that I say hind sight is always 20/20

Fair Winds,

Bill
 
#21 ·
Working solo on the packing materials while in the water...that could have a high pucker factor (HPF) as there's just no easy way to stop things once you are committed. And while there are "safe" ways to do it (i.e. packing wax or putty around the shaft from the outside, which isn't hard to do in warm water) there's still a HPF because you know that if you haven't repacked properly...you've got to keep working till you get it right and tight, or else get hauled ASAP.

But replacing a transducer? Heck, I pull the speed log every time I secure the boat, and reinstall it every time I get on the boat. (Unless I'm being lazy and leave it out.<G>) Fire hose? No way, the process of swapping a transducer for the dummy plug (shipped with it, to replace it at these times) should take all of about 5 seconds, which only feels like ten, and the quart or water that comes in only spurts a foot high.

Threading the cap down, sure, takes a bit longer and needs more care, but once the dummy plug is in...no big deal, there's no water coming in. Too many folks are scared at the prospect, but it really is no big deal. Best to let someone else demonstrate it, hands on, to get rid of the HPF before you do it for the first time.<G>

Of course, both are good reminders why we all have damage control plugs tied on next to every hole in the hull. Right?<VBG>
 
#22 ·
Good point about the pucker factor with respect to the packing gland.

Transducers aren't bad if you have practice... It also depends on how deep down the transducer is... on one boat I worked on, it was about three feet below the surface...and the water did jet up about two feet... and a good bit more than a quart came in. That was a bigger powerboat though...
 
#24 · (Edited)
Clarification please. If the stuffing box is dripping, the drip would be coming from around the nut and thread area, or are you referring to the clamps and the actual "box" area? Mine appears to drip a little too, but higher up on the shaft by the nut and thread, I think. Don't quote me on that. I can take a Mustang engine apart and put it back together, but all this extra sea water engine stuff is new to me.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I agree with Hellosailor.
I also often take out the speed log to clean it.
This is one of the (few) advantages of a very shallow bilge of Benneteau 423. The sounder is less than a feet under the surface, so the preasure is really low and not like a fire hose. It is an easy accesible place - remove one floor panel in front cabin. Easy to do replacement - one plastic out, another in -finished in seconds.
I would not undertake the work with the gland - too complicated and in most boats not an easy to reach place. Not to mention that if it all fails for the sounder case you can easy use a wooden plug. Not so easy with the shaft...
my "HPF" rating for the speed removal -7 the first time, 5 the second and 2 to 3 every other time.
 
#26 ·
I've done this many times on my Penn Yan and in the water. Do it on the hard if its your first time. If you find it easy, then its your choise from there. I recommend you get a dental pic or the pic tool they sell for getting the stuffing out. Remember, one circle of packing at a time and stager the joints. Do not install in a continuous wrap. There are also inexpensive wrenches for the large nuts. You need 2 wrenches, one for the nut and one for the stationary assembly. If you don't hold the assembly with a wrench, you'll break the hose or worse. Do not use a plumbers wrench, it will round off the brass nut edges. Count how many rings you took out and make sure you have the right size packing befor you start. Yes, there are many diameters. Its also made in the standard wax or more expensive teflon. Make sure you only have it hand tight to start and let it run in awhile. Then tighten until you get the proper drip for cooling while running. If too tight, you will burn the packing and ruin the shaft. Feel the nut after running for temp. Here is a link for a goot step by step. One of the best things i did was replace the assembly with a dripless P.S.S. dripless packing years ago. No more water and works great.

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/Casey/StuffingBox.htm

Wayne
 
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