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post #1 of 44 Old 04-21-2007 Thread Starter
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Standing rigging replacment

Before we head offshore we're plannign on replacing our 23 year old rod rigging with new wire. This is a few months away still, probably have it done in the fall, but I'm starting to wonder what to budget for it. Nothing too fancy, we're doing away with the roller furler due to lack of confidence in its strenght. It will not be replaced until we return. Insulated backstay and then a lot (aprox 250') of wire, that's about it. I'm sure fittings and so on will cost a fortune as well. I believe the mast n the Newport 41s is 57 feet from the step. I believe our MKII rig is slightly taller. Can anyone tell me what they paid for a similar replacment. I'm curious abuot any size of boat. I know there are a hundred variables to rig replacement but I'm jsut trying to figure out what to budget for the fall. Thanks
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post #2 of 44 Old 04-21-2007
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There's too many variables to give you an intelligent price (particularly your location and how in-demand the rigging is), but I agree 23 years is getting past it.

I would make a few suggestions, depending on the sailing you do. Go with 5/16ths 7 x 19 Dyneema wire with Sta-Lok terminals. I'm guessing that's about right for your boat. Do you have running backstays rigged (or can you rig them?)

Find some 1/4" aluminum stock, make a jig, and bend some mast steps. Ask how to do this, but it's dead easy and can be done with a table saw (watch for slivers) to make the basic bar stock. Just remember to use Tufnol or some kind of lanolin to isolate the steel machine bolts from the aluminum mast and steps, or they'll corrode there forever.

This is an opportunity to get the rigging right, and you can do a great deal and save on labour.

Get the mast down and start measuring the halyards and inspecting the sheaves. Once they're down, you can service the sheave boxes and eliminate burrs, squeaks and general reluctance to turn.

STA-LOK Terminals Ltd - Marine - Terminals - STA-LOK Terminals

DIY, and just needing a pair of wedges, these are reusable, but you need a new "wedge" each time you make up a stay. This means you can just carry a length of stay a foot longer than your longest existing stay (probably the main forestay) and can get the right length with a hacksaw, grind the ends to the right shape, apply wedge, apply some sort of water-repelling goo (lanolin) and screw the whole thing together. Then adjust in place using something called a "Loos tension gauge", which you can mock up yourself for next to nothing using Internet instructions (I prefer to borrow a real $80 one once a year for the price of a beer to fellow sailors).

Norseman is a slightly different swageless approach, but still good.

Here's an article on the general idea: Good Old Boat, Quick Attach, Sta-Lok, Norseman, swasless fittings

and another swageless maker:
S3i Ltd: Swageless Terminals

and a good article by a surveyor on what to look for in rigging problems with loads of pictures suited to the meanest understanding ...

Sailboat Rig Problems - J. Stormer

Good luck. It might be worth shopping around and driving the boat a couple of hundred miles to get a better deal or a quicket turn-around.
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post #3 of 44 Old 04-21-2007
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It's also time to replace all the terminal fittings, turnbuckles, etc. if they are stainless, because there may be enough crevice corrosion to lead to sudden failures now.

You really need to spend an hour making up a list, i.e.:
One forestay, #"x75 feet
One backstay, #" x 75 feet, split with two insulators (type, size) at
Six shrouds, #"x 60 feet,
terminal fittings on each, etc.

Then contact a couple of riggers to see what it will cost you. The most reliable thing is to drop the mast, give them the old rigging (all labelled) and have them make the new up to match. That's assuming you just want them to make it up and you're doing the installation. If you want them to install it--add.

If you are planning to DIY, you'll still need to make up a bill of materials in order to shop for the parts. Estimates aren't going to mean much until you've got that, or a quote from a sistership.
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post #4 of 44 Old 04-21-2007
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Valiente-

I don't believe that StaLok terminals work on Dyneema, which is a fiber found in high-tech ropes made from ultra-high-molecular weight polyethylene. I believe you meant Dyform... which is a stainless steel wire that uses shaped wires to give more strength to a 1x19 wire rope cable.

I would recommend you also look at Hayn HiMod terminal fittings, as they are reusable and a bit simpler to use.

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post #5 of 44 Old 04-21-2007
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You're doing away with your roller furling??? Because you fear it is weak and unsafe... and subjecting yourself to the risks foredeck work in heavy weather??? And then you are weakening your backstay by insulating it?
I don't understand your thinking...pls. explain further. Not criticizing...you may have good reasons...just comes across as wierd.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog
Valiente-

I don't believe that StaLok terminals work on Dyneema, which is a fiber found in high-tech ropes made from ultra-high-molecular weight polyethylene. I believe you meant Dyform... which is a stainless steel wire that uses shaped wires to give more strength to a 1x19 wire rope cable.

I would recommend you also look at Hayn HiMod terminal fittings, as they are reusable and a bit simpler to use.
Thanks, I did in fact mean Dyform. I've bought ten grand in boat gear since January as we are well into fitting out the boat, and my mind is swimming in product names and proprietary terminology just as my printer is spitting out "fact sheets" for how to apply primer in a north east wind on a Tuesday...very special needs stuff, apparently.
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LOL... that's it... you're not spending boat bucks fast enough.. that's the problem.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
You're doing away with your roller furling??? Because you fear it is weak and unsafe... and subjecting yourself to the risks foredeck work in heavy weather??? And then you are weakening your backstay by insulating it?
I don't understand your thinking...pls. explain further. Not criticizing...you may have good reasons...just comes across as wierd.
Roller furling is fundamentally a trade-off, and has a record of failures in certain conditions, which is why the prudent sailor strips off the furler ahead of heavy weather. My new-to-me boat has a beefy ProFurl, and while I like it fine, I am far more familiar with hank-on sails (the new boat's staysail is hank-on, by the way).

On certain boats, going forward can be wet, obviously, but needn't be particularly dangerous. I have an "anchor well" that means when I'm working forward I am surrounded by a cage of pipe and can stay low and clipped on.

Hank-on sails can also be reefed and oceanic foresails usually have reef points for this purpose. If you have the space (which, admittedly, many don't or don't wish to surrender a bunk and an 'orderly' saloon for), you can carry five or six sails that will give you an enormous ability to keep sailing...and if one shreds, you have plenty of back-up.

Hank-ons can be dropped in seconds with a downhaul, and it can be done from either the mast or the cockpit. Folding wet foresails in a blow isn't fun, I'll confess, but neither is expecting to get any sail power from a 2/3rds rolled-up yankee on a furler.

Like everything else, it's a choice and it's a compromise. I'll keep the furler until it breaks...because I know and am comfortable with hank-ons.

But regarding the backstay insulator...I totally agree. There are many options for rigging SSB antennas that don't deliberatly involve installing potential failure points.
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post #9 of 44 Old 04-22-2007
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I would budjet at least $4,000.00. And if you plan to have a rigger do the whole job that won't be enough.

There are usually complications when converting from rod to wire. I would not consider doing a job like that without pulling the mast.

Mechanical fittings, regardless of who makes them, will take longer to assemble than it will take to run a swage through a machine. (Wire-Tecnik is the best IMO).
No one needs to remind me about swage cracks. When the swages start cracking, the wire should be replaced. Period.

I think you should rethink the whole rollerfurling issue. On a long passage, the less time you spend on a pitching foredeck man-handling a sail, the better. Just make sure it's installed correctly, the halyard is running through the restrainer and you use pennants on the various sails where needed.

Hayn Enterprises makes a great backstay insulator that is promoted as being failsafe. If installed correctly, is should be.

Find a rigger who will work with you, advise you and perhaps allow you to do some of the work yourself while the stick is down.
You will probably find that most riggers will not give you a quote. We only give estimates and urge the customer to be present as work is performed. It's a lot easier than trying to explain later why something took longer than anticipated.
Don't take shortcuts. Take this opportunity to replace the electrical wiring, lights etc. Get to know the system that makes your vessel a sailboat, the "rig"
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post #10 of 44 Old 04-22-2007
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Valiente...Each to his own...but the notion that furlers are less reliable than hanked on is a bit dated me-thinks. If it is good enough for Ellen McArthur in the southern ocean...it is good enough for me.
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