Prep question for Epifanes Varnish (also which one)

geary126 · #1 (**permalink**) 05-08-2007

Okay, so know like this is like religion and politics. The damn varnish discussion, again, sort of. I looked at old posts, but could use a hand on prep, once I've got the wood sanded down.

(I took everything off the boat and used Jabsco Paint Remover, and the process has sucked, btw. Will try the heat gun route next time.

Let's say I get to #220 stage, or so. Everything clean.

I'm hearing Use Bleach vs. Oxy___ acid, to lighten the wood.

Second, if I want to fill some holes (which won't be redrilled in exactly the same spot, but close, would you use epoxy or wood filler? Guessing former.

Finally, read two Practical Sailor excerpts. Seems like they recco Epi Wood Finish in one, and in the follow up, say High Gloss.

Which is preferable? I like the idea of adding coats without sanding.

thanks, guys, as always.

stevemac00 · #2 (**permalink**) 05-08-2007

I'm no expert but bored at work today. Fill wood holes with epoxy using WestSystem filler number 407 which is easily sanded. I also use an analine dye to darken to correct color (it's kind of a reddish brown with no dye). My wife does the varnishing but my understanding the high gloss has more UV protection but the standard has better build. So she starts with four coats of standard with the first two coats thinned then switches to the high gloss for last three coats.

geary126 · #3 (**permalink**) 05-08-2007

okay. thanks.

Just curious: anybody know which of the two Epifanes products was top rated by practical sailor? I was confused, as one article seems to indicate Wood Finish, while the other said high gloss (clear?)

GotTheNotion · #4 (**permalink**) 05-09-2007

Why are you drilling next to the old holes? If it's because the existing screws pull out, you can take anything from a toothpick to a small dowel and coat it with glue (like gorilla). Tap it in, let it set up, and snap or saw it off. You can then redrill a pilot hole and reattach whatever in the same place.

sailingdog · #5 (**permalink**) 05-09-2007

Or you can fill the sub-surface portion of the hole with thickened epoxy, using a syringe.

Then drill a pilot hole and use screw as normal after it cures.

SailorMitch · #6 (**permalink**) 05-09-2007

Without digging out the old issues of PS, I recommend using the Epifanes Woodfinish. Pick the gloss level to suit yourself. I've used the Woodfinish gloss for 2 years now and really like it. Yearly recoat and you're off and sailing. You don't have to sand as long as you recoat within 72 hours (and I have stretched that another 12 hours without any harm.)

I agree with the others about using epoxy to fill any holes you will be redrilling, but not exactly in the same place.

GotTheNotion · #7 (**permalink**) 05-09-2007

I think I need to clarify.
Do not fill the hole with a toothpick or dowel if it is going to be exposed, only if you plan on putting the screw back where it was. If you try to color it in or stain it etc you will have a mess because the dowel is end grain and will NEVER match!!! End grain always sucks up any coloring or finish 75% faster than side grain. (That's how a tree gets it's water before it becomes a board.)

I think you can replace a screw in the same place with this method because wood expands and contracts depending on humidity. The dowel that the treads of the screw grab will do the same thing inside the hole you've filled. Epoxy won't. I guess it would depend on whether or not you're going to put a lot of weight on it.

SM- Have you tried this before? You have a ton of experience, I wouldn't want to misguide him. If it doesn't work, why? I love learning about this kind of stuff.

SailorMitch · #8 (**permalink**) 05-11-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by GotTheNotion

I think I need to clarify.
Do not fill the hole with a toothpick or dowel if it is going to be exposed, only if you plan on putting the screw back where it was. If you try to color it in or stain it etc you will have a mess because the dowel is end grain and will NEVER match!!! End grain always sucks up any coloring or finish 75% faster than side grain. (That's how a tree gets it's water before it becomes a board.)

I think you can replace a screw in the same place with this method because wood expands and contracts depending on humidity. The dowel that the treads of the screw grab will do the same thing inside the hole you've filled. Epoxy won't. I guess it would depend on whether or not you're going to put a lot of weight on it.

SM- Have you tried this before? You have a ton of experience, I wouldn't want to misguide him. If it doesn't work, why? I love learning about this kind of stuff.

GTN -- Thanks for the vote of confidence, I think??

There are a bunch of variables here, and probably a number of approaches that will work. Are you not reusing the same holes because they have gotten too large over time (essentially stripped out)? If you can reuse the holes, simply fill them with epoxy, let it cure really well, redrill a pilot hole and re-install the screw. I would not use a dowel or something else, but that's just me. If the holes are on an angle and straight epoxy won't stay put, use the dust trick explained below. Epoxy, when cured properly, will be a permanent fix for the screws.

If you aren't reusing the old hole for some other reason (going to a larger gizmo for example), how noticeable will it be if you just fill it with plain epoxy thickened with teak dust? Be carefull using some of the regular epoxy epoxy thickening agents because they can come out to be some weird color that will be very noticeable. Using teak dust (collect it in the dust catcher of a random orbital sander from an old piece of teak) has worked well for me. Remember you will be covering the repair with varnish anyway, and that will tend to blend it in.

shantijwk · #9 (**permalink**) 05-11-2007

Regarding wood finishes – Gloss finishes have a higher content of “solids” in them. The satin finishes have flattening agents in them which tend to make them softer while providing their sheen. Therefore IMHO it is always a good idea to build with gloss and use the satin finish as a final coat if that is the look you are after. The label not withstanding it is always a good idea to scuff lightly between coats of finish. On finishes where the manufacturer indicates no between coat sanding required they are relying on a chemical bond to fuse the coats together. Sanding between coats provides a mechanical bond. Isn’t a redundant system what every sailor looks for on their vessel?

GotTheNotion · #10 (**permalink**) 05-11-2007

Thanks SailorMitch!

I know the dust trick too. I think any of the above will work given the situation. I learned the dowel trick when I used to build guitars. The nicest thing about it is, it's a permanent, fast fix. You don't have to worry about collecting the dust and mixing it. Of course, it can not be used in every situation.

No one addressed his question about bleach vs. oxalic acid. I'd love to know. I have a lot of really dark oxidation/cruddy old teak oil in the wood grain around my companion way. Then there's always oxygen bleach (sodium percarbonate), it's biodegradable and not as harsh. Anybody tried that?

GTN