Rudder Crack - help! - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 Old 05-10-2007 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Rudder Crack - help!

Upon launching our boat this spring, we noticed a crack that has worked it way almost completly through our rudder on our 1986 Jeanneau Tonic 23 at the point of the bolts. The rudder is made of laminated wood (marine plywood??) It does not appear to be repairable, nor is it usable in this condition. This boat has been out of production for YEARS and they have a left-over rudder at the manufacturer in FRANCE for about $2700. Needless to say, we are looking for a less expensive option, preferably of a material other than wood - but are looking for suggestions.

We would consider making a rudder if complete instructions were to be had, or if anyone knows of a reasonable manufacturer. We live in Pittsburgh, PA.
Thanks you in advance!
D&L
makomik is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 Old 05-10-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 158
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
$2,700 is a rip off. These boats sell for $5-6,000. Can you post a pic of the rudder?

Last edited by Sabre66; 05-10-2007 at 07:39 PM.
Sabre66 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 12 Old 05-10-2007
Reward for lost Kraken!
 
hellosailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,539
Thanks: 6
Thanked 136 Times in 133 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
The only real rudder supplier in the US appears to be Foss Foam and frankly, unless they have original rudders in stock (not likely for a wooden rudder built in France) I wouldn't gamble on them. I've heard very mixed reviews.

Wood is fairly simple to repair or replace, the question is how is the rudder affixed to the boat? Pintles? Or a rudder post? "Flat" profile, or a foil shape?
hellosailor is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 12 Old 05-10-2007
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Why can't you repair the wooden rudder using epoxy???

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 12 Old 05-10-2007 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
I have a photo but I can't figure out how to add it to this post. (Sorry, new to this.) It is a foil design and is attached by two pins, one at the top and one near the bottom of the stern. The crack is at the bottom bolt point where it attaches to the stern pin and is perpendicular to the length, almost all the way across. The bolt plate hid most of the crack.

We like the idea of a repair but didn't realize epoxy would be strong enough. Would you suggest placing bolts above and below the crack or maybe a metal plate or something to reinforce or will layers of epoxy be enough?

We appreciate the information from such experienced sailors/boaters, which we are NOT.
D & L
makomik is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 12 Old 05-10-2007
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
If you can post the photo to Flickr.com and then put a link to it here... it would help alot. Without seeing the actual damage... it is hard to say whether epoxy or epoxy and bolts will be enough to fix the problem.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 12 Old 05-10-2007
Here .. Pull this
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,031
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Take the rudder off the boat. Take all the fittings off the rudder. I am assuming that you told us that the crack runs horizontally across the rudder.

Draw a straight line across the rudder, on top of the crack and saw it neatly in half. Do not sand the cut smooth. Now get some 1/2 inch or 3/8 inch diameter HARDWOOD dowels about 3 inches long - you want them to be about a third of the thickness of your rudder. (You might have to use smaller diameters as you get toward the back).

Drill STRAIGHT holes 1 1/2 inches deep, a tiny little bit - like 1/32 of an inch - bigger than the width of your dowels vertically into one half of the rudder. Shave down some pencils or something similar, and shove them into the holes that you just drilled. They need to stick out a little bit - about 1/16 of an inch.

Now CAREFULLY butt the two pieces of your rudder up together, so that your pencils mark the spots on the other half of your rudder where you need to drill corresponding holes. Take the pencils out and again drill STRAIGHT holes about 1 3/4 inches deep. Fill the holes in both pieces of the rudder with epoxy and cover both raw edges of the saw cut with a fair amount of epoxy.

Shove the dowels into the holes in one side of the rudder, and then put the other half of the rudder on top of them and push (or hammer if necessary) until they meet and your rudder is in one piece again.

Now clamp it with LOTS of clamps, putting something thick and perfectly straight in between the jaws of the clamps and the rudder so that the rudder ends up perfectly straight vertically. Now take some rope, and wrap it TIGHTLY around the rudder to hold the top and the bottom of the rudder together. Don't squeeze ALL of the epoxy out of the joint, leave a little bit in there - it is stronger than the wood.

When you are done, fill in any dings or holes with epoxy mixed with sawdust - should be the same consistency as LePage's Plastic Wood, sand it smooth, coat it with 7 or 8 coats of epoxy sealer (S1 low viscosity is very good for this) put the fittings back on, put it on the boat and go sailing.

Last edited by Sailormann; 05-10-2007 at 10:06 PM.
Sailormann is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 12 Old 05-10-2007
Senior Member
 
blt2ski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,884
Thanks: 0
Thanked 30 Times in 29 Posts
Rep Power: 12
   
Looking at info on the jeanneau owners site, which it appears you have listed yourself as an owner there, the pics I can find of a tonic, make it appear as it it is a typical gudgen pintle attachment. In which case, making a new rudder out of wood would be pretty simple having made a rudder or two or three in the past. Granted not that big, most were for 8-12' boats, but step-dad built a 21' boat and that rudder was not any harder than my smaller boats rudders other than size.

You could use marine plywood encased in fiberglass, or a solid Mahagany rudder makes a nice look too. Altho that takes a bit of gluing peices together.

You might also post a message on the owners forum and see if by some chance someone has an extra they can sell or ship you. Being as 12-14 folks here in the US are listed, emailing some of those folks might be a good idea also.

The owner operator Malcolm, helped one other member whom posts here and on there with a rudder replacement, when he could not get any info out of Jeanneau. I think he knows what strings to pull. But the money they are asking for, seems a bit high!

marty
blt2ski is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 12 Old 05-11-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 158
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Sabre66 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 12 Old 05-11-2007
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
If the rudder is split horizontally, sailormann's repair technique isn't too bad... but I would laminate a layer or two of glass over the repaired area of the rudder to reinforce it...and to help keep water from getting into the original damaged area.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Building a Rudder Newport 30 Armchairprotest Gear & Maintenance 5 04-07-2009 01:11 PM
Emergency Steering John Kretschmer Seamanship Articles 0 03-08-2002 07:00 PM
Emergency Steering John Kretschmer Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 03-08-2002 07:00 PM
Emergency Steering John Kretschmer Cruising Articles 0 03-08-2002 07:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome