Whisker pole sizing

[blt2ski]

Is there a std size for lack of better term to size a whisker pole based on ones J measurement? or a combo of the LP and J measurement?

Also, while not normally used, sizing for a pole for a asymetric spinnaker? I am thinking for more straight downwind runs, ie 150-180* a pole would help my AS be a bit more usefull. It is a great sail flown loose in the 80-150* range!

Forspar recomends a 10-18' telescoping for my 30' boat, BUT, IIRC my local fleet in racing only allows a 70-80% of J pole for a whisker pole when racing, will verify this. So with a J of 11.5' 70% being 8.05'........at least for racing purposes, the 10-18 would make me illegal. I am not in the mood to spend $600-800 and just follow a books recomendation, if there is an actual formula to figure the proper size per say.

Thanks
Marty

[sailingdog]

It depends on what you're using the whisker pole for.

If you're cruising and poling out an oversized Genoa, or an asymetric, then I would go with Forespar's recommendation, as the shorter pole is going to be a bit tight.

If you're planning on using it for races, then you need to stick with whatever the local fleet rules will allow you.

[jgeissinger]

PHRF max allowable for a whisker pole is 140 per cent of J. The 70 to 80 per cent sounds not only strange, but pretty useless. Maybe they are talking about a reaching strut, which is something entirely different.

Follow SailingDogs advice and go with a bigger pole. I personally think that Forespar's suggestion is too big. I have a 11.2 J and use a pole that telescopes to 14ft. Its close enough, it is smaller when retracted, and it definitely does help in a variety of conditions.

[blt2ski]

The 140 sounds like a better number to use vs the 70-80 I am remembering someone mentioning in a skipper meeting last Jan. I was going to check with the fleet captan to verify that max measurement for the fleet races.

I figured otherwise, it was an anything goes. The 10-18 seemed a bit big, where as the 8-14 seemed a bit more appropriate to my thinking. A 9-16 would be best! ie 140% of 11.5 = 16.1.

Then assuming that the 140 is based on a 150-155, a smaller headsail, one would want to be say 10'ish % smaller pole, so my 110 would be about 11'...... and the 16' would work for my 80% of max AS sail availible too.

Thinking on this, I may remembering 70-80% of the overall LP too, which would be about 140% of J on a 150-155 LP genoa too! It could be one of those I am not remembering ALL of the facts correctly.

Thanks for replys.
Marty

[GeorgeB]

Interesting that your local YRA has a PHRF rule dictating whisker pole lengths. Our Northern California YRA has no such restriction. However, my one design class rule does have a restriction and it is 16’ 9” which represents 80% of our max headsail LP of 155%. Our rules further dictate that the pole must be clearly marked at Its longest “legal” length. My personal experience has been there is a point where you get a diminishing return when extending the pole past a certain distance. I do not go beyond 90% of LP. I know others who don’t go beyond the foot dimension of the sail their using. No matter what, it is illegal (RRS – Equipment section) to use a whisker (or any pole for that matter) in conjunction with an asymmetric. If you are having trouble keeping the kite inflated, try using smaller diameter sheets (a.k.a. “dental floss) or stripping the covers off of the first 10-20’ of sheet. (I’m assuming you already have a .5 oz kite, if you have a heavier one, sell it and get the half ouncer.)

[PalmettoSailor]

Originally Posted by jgeissinger

PHRF max allowable for a whisker pole is 140 per cent of J. The 70 to 80 per cent sounds not only strange, but pretty useless. Maybe they are talking about a reaching strut, which is something entirely different.

Follow SailingDogs advice and go with a bigger pole. I personally think that Forespar's suggestion is too big. I have a 11.2 J and use a pole that telescopes to 14ft. Its close enough, it is smaller when retracted, and it definitely does help in a variety of conditions.

According to the link below, PHRF of the Chesapeake limits whisker pole length to "J" for non spinaker class. If the pole is adjustable, a red color must be visable when extended beyond the rated length.

It seems the max allowed length varies a great deal depending on where you are racing.

http://www.phrfchesbay.com/esspec2.pdf

[jgeissinger]

PHRF Southern California is quite specific. Limits of poles without penalty are: spinnaker=J, extended bow pole (sprit boats)=manufacturers length, whisker pole=140% of J.

If you are using a whisker pole as a spinnaker pole it must be fixed to a max length = J.

Get the 8-14 or the 9-16 and you have all the bases covered!

[T34C]

Do they regulate where you attach the pole to the boat? Pretty easy to get a couple extra feet out of the pole moving it to the rail from the mast.

[tenuki]

use the cheaper boathooksailorcombo pole, no class limit that I know of for that.



(props to From the Dock for this image)

[GeorgeB]

I wonder if my class rules are using So Cal’s PHRF as a guideline as the two measurements are the same? In any case, length up here isn’t much of a problem in so much that 140 headsails carry a PHRF penalty. Besides, why invoke a penalty when a code sail will do the same job? In regards to my comment about the “no pole on asymmetrics” that is to say no pole on the clew/sheet end. Spirit poles can be used but require a ratings adjustment (at least here in Nor Cal). RRS state that spars (poles) must be attached to the mast. And a ruling in one memorable protest appeal it was determined that a “crew member is not a pole” and cannot be used to hold out a clew with a boathook. You can, however, hold the clew with your hand as long as you are not violating the “crew outside the life lines” rules. Needless to say you hear a lot of funny stuff when you are on RC.