Looks like I won't be eating crow anytime soon. But I was underestimating the price of $3800! So it is actually 800 bucks worth of panels and controller and 3000 bucks worth of stik.
Anyway, this was a fun thread. Thanks again HS for your good work and balanced reporting in your testing...I think you did a more thorough job than PS...but it is nice to see similar results.
based on the results here, and on PS, I don't need pictures any longer.
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Cam-
"800 bucks worth of panels and controller "
Huh? A real fast look:
Two BP350U panels, list $458US discount $375US. Plus shipping...let's say $50 to get them intact. About $800 for the panels alone.
BlueSky SolarBoost 2000e Controller: $236 on sale for $199US, another $200 plus shipping.
So let's be hard, but real. There's a fast thousand dollars worth of panels and electronics there, and many shoppers will pay more. Oh, throw in another $50-100 for the connecting cable. So...
$2700 worth of stik may sound extreme, I know I can use U-bolts and rail sections for far less, too. But a triple-axis adjustable and securable mount...Honestly, have you had any custom welding done, in stainless or aluminum?
Custom radar arch, bowsprit repairs, any mods? I've had some welding bills, and trying to have a metal shop fab up the base and adjusting arms for that price--would mean calling your brother in law and telling him you were locking up your wife and the beer until he was done.
We won't all need that kind of mount, we won't all mount it. Many of us are quite content not to sail on Hinckleys too.
Looking on the positive side, we've all learned that even if we don't need the Hinckley, the expensive MPPT controllers are worth switching to, and gimballing the solar panels (instead of throwing them on the deck) can also boost production an easy 30% per day.
The flip side of the question is...What can anyone fab up a gimballing rail mount (or other mount) for, that will allow solar panels of this size to be rotated in three dimensions to track the sun? Is there anything else out there? (Kinda like a "RAM" mount on steroids? Or a coupla Capuchin monkeys in sailor suits?)
I'd still like someone to either post a public synopsis of results of the PS report (which is legal and proper and does not violate copyright laws) or to PM me and email some info.
It is a nice system, a nice mount, but expensive. They also basically said that 70-80 ah/day was quite "optimistic". They averaged 7 a/h from 10-2, with a max output of 7.9 (IIRC) at noon, moving them every hour. They seemed to portray it was a neat mounting system, and would be a good option for some people, but you can buy the pieces on your own much cheaper (now where have I heard that before)??
You know, I have no problem with the SS. I think it is the right design for the right person... as long as that person is realistic. I have tried to stay out of the strong emotions on both sides, but I will say again that if you are looking for a system and mount for under 4k where you can also likely put a wind gen on there and be done with it... look at the SS. If you want something that will basically get you off the grid and does not require any attention other than washing off bird poop, go have an arch built and put on a large array. The cost of a large array is about twice as much as the SS, but it can also serve as davits for a dink, mounting other objects, and will get you off the grid or very close to, and requires no attention. If you add on the other attributes, maybe it is not so expensive anymore. Factor the cost of the arch and panels against a diesel generator, and you will vastly come out better with solar.
- CD
PS I have been running exclsively off of solar for about 2 months (or more)now. My charger has been turned off, both due to lack of electricity and because frankly, I make power for free now.
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HS...in an earlier post on the other thread I researched and found the whole thing for about $800 as I recall but don't want to bother with doing that again for the sake of a few hundred.
I do not disagree with your analysis that the stik is well built and a precision piece of work that may appeal to a certain customer. My larger point is that 3 way adjustability and adjustment 3 times a day at minimum is a pain in the butt for a cruiser and that in ON THE WATER at anchor situations, much of the directabiliity benefits of the stik are lost due to tide, wind, current and wake moving the boat while you are down below or off the boat and not paying attention.
It is better and cheaper IMHO to simply rail or bimini mount two LARGER panels AND get a wind generator to supply the needs of most cruisers. I fully understand that the stik is a solution for some. Just pointing out that other less expensive and less labor intensive options exist for most to get the requisite A/H's into their battery bank.
Cam-
I think we're generally in agreement.
" My larger point is that 3 way adjustability and adjustment 3 times a day at minimum is a pain in the butt for a cruiser"
Eh, dunno. I have friends who say it must be a pain in the butt to adjust lines and sheets and sails, just get a motor boat and drive. So, once every hour while you are getting your eyes around the boat looking to play "what's wrong with this picture"...you tilt a panel. (shrug).
"and that in ON THE WATER at anchor situations, much of the directabiliity benefits of the stik are lost due to tide, wind, current and wake moving the boat while you are down below or off the boat and not paying attention."
Absolutely. For an unattended boat, it won't do much. This is a product for a piece of the cruising market, not the mooring queens.
????? SolarStik and its advocates have tended to overestimate the capabilities of the system. I think PS's numbers sound about right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xort
So Practical Sailor says 70 to 80...
I'm looking at a Solar Stik ad in Latt & Atts that says "AVERAGE DAILY POWER PRODUCTION IS 80 TO 100 AMP-HOURS."
Average daily production, not peak production or some other such thing.
I guess PS must be a bunch of incompetent product testers as opposed to the always truthful & forthright people connected to Solar Stik.
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a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
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Yeah, apparently more confusion because of the MPPT charging algorithm a mentioned before.
The MPPT controller they are using will not simply apply a conventional 14.4V bulk charge in th bulk phase--even if you are programmed for them. It seems to apply about 0.1-0.2V more than the battery voltage, at the highest amperage it can supply. This is totally contradictory to conventional charging logic, but apparently with PWM it works.
So if you did something foolish, or tried to test a hard charge, and started with a battery that was at 11.4 volts (i.e. dead) instead of the more typical 12.1 volts that some of us would never try to get below...
You'd see the SolarStik pumping out lots of "amps" and "amphours" instead of normal power.
Let's pull some numbers out of the air, suppose a 100W array put out 100W for 8 hours during the typical waterfront day in Hades. 800W-hours, total, presumably at the 17.5V maximum voltage for the panel. That would be something like 800/17.5 =45.7AH on a good day in Hell, right?
Now, take the same solar array in Hell and plug in an MPPT controller and a dead battery. After all, in Hell all batteries are probably dead anyway. The math hanges, 800/11.4=70AH!
Yes, the same array in the same conditions might be putting out 70AH or 45AH, depending on how many volts it was putting out at the same time.
And I think there has been a bit of confusion over that, which I would expect SolarStik to clear up. Their users are split between sailors (who shouldn't be cycling batteries down that low) and emergency powe deployments, like OEM centers, where the batteries will be ridden all the way down to "dead" on a regular basis if that is the criteria they are needed for. Heck, if I was running an OEM and needed full power 24x7, I might also say "run 'em till they die, we'll call in for more batteries when we can".
We've got the tests...they've got the feedback...figure a couple of months till they revise & replace all the ads and paperworks but I'd expect the claims will come in line with what the more extensive testing has shown: Different results for different users, in different markets.
If they were con men...they sure wouldn't have been dropping off Stiks and and saying "Here, beat on 'em and then talk it up". No body has tried to muzzle me, much less to bid on the six-figure dollar amount where I can be bribed. (gosh darn!)
