Freedom 25 Trips Earth leakage breaker

toewsrus · #1 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007

Just got a new (used) boat: and now have my first new problem.

I just connected to shore power. And a breaker trips instantly. I have a breaker on the incoming line that is called an "earth leakage unit" by the schematic. It's basically a double throw magnetic breaker. I believe it to be sensing incoming and outgoing current, if they are different then it will trip.

When I disconnect the inverter/charger the tripping stops. I disconnected the output and it still trips.

Is the problem in the inverter/charger? or should I be looking elsewhere? Are these units repairable?

By the way the inverter works when away from shore power.

Update: If I disconnect ground to shore, the problem goes away.

sailingdog · #2 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007

Are you sure it is the breaker tripping, and not a GFCI circuit?

The "earth leakage" unit sounds like a Ground Fault Interrupter... it is designed to trip if there is a ground fault or electrocution hazard on your boat. It sounds like you have a bad inverter/charger unit.

SEMIJim · #3 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007

What the dog said. DO NOT be tempted to "temporarily" work-around this problem by leaving the ground off. The problem is not going away when you disconnect the ground, you're simply burying the symptom. You definitely have a potential electrocution hazard. Possibly even a fire hazard. (In my mind: Any time electrical equipment is malfunctioning, there's a potential fire hazard.) Likewise, the device probably only appears to be working when it's away from shore power. Try plugging it into a GFCI outlet or a circuit with a GFCI breaker.

I said in another thread that working with natural or propane gas scared the bejesus out of me, but that I'd hack on electrical circuits all day w/o a moment's hesitation. That's because I understand and am comfortable with things electrical. Been working on and around AC and DC circuits since my early teens. Trust me when I tell you that, whatever's going on with that device, from your description it is unsafe.

Jim

toewsrus · #4 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007

on the schematic it's not called a ground fault it's called an earth leakage unit. I got the idea of removing the ground from here:

http://www.seakin.com/gilana/sy_for_..._for_sale.htm: here's the paragraph:

Quote:

Electrical system.

The Shore power connection can be 240/120 volts. An Isolation transformer can step up or merely isolate the shore power. All equipment on board can run at 60 Hz or 50 Hz Except the Microwave oven and the freezer circulation pump these are easily converted. An Earth-leakage protection circuit breaker protects against electrical shock on board the boat. The Earth wire is left disconnected at shore, protecting against possible electrolysis.

.

ebs001 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007

"An Earth-leakage protection circuit breaker protects against electrical shock on board the boat. The Earth wire is left disconnected at shore, protecting against possible electrolysis"
An earth leakage protection cicuit breaker is what we call a ground fault breaker. These normally, although not always, have an amperage rating and therefore will trip on over current as well as a gound fault. The fact that the circuit only trips when the inverter/charger is connected indicates that it is the problem. It may be tripping because it has a short or a ground fault. Regardless it will have to be repaired or replaced. But it sounds like the neutral in the Inverter/ charger is making contact with the ground. If you know how to use a multi meter you could verify this and you may be able to see it if you open up the unit. The trouble with taking it into a reair shop is that it could cost more than the unit is worth - it's always a crap shoot.
I agree with the above posts disconnecting the ground wire is hiding the problem - you need to solve the problem.

camaraderie · #6 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007

A freedom 25 is not a cheap unit and is not that old.
First...there are potential interface problems with many GFCI's and MSW inverter/chargers...Xantrex has a paper on this on their website. Your problem may be a simple incompatability which can be remedied with a GFCI swap. Here is the link:
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/1193/docserve.asp

If this does not solve your problem...I would get in touch with Xantrex (who bought Freedom) technical support and describe your problem.
I would also renew all wire connections in and out of the inverter and make sure you don't have a simple mechanical connection fault.

ebs001 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007

Cam, the problem of which you speak is GFCIs powered by the inverter. In this case the inverter/charger is being powered by the ground fault breaker. The unit, when powered by shore power which is when the problem occurs should be in the charging mode and not in the inverter mode. Any incompatability would only occur when in the inverter mode. I am not familiar with these units, but is it possible that he has both inverted power and shore power powering his 120 volt AC power?

camaraderie · #8 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007

ebs...ahh gotcha...never mind then. Unless wiring has changed since he bought the boat, it would seem unlikely that both AC and InvertedAC could be combined...unless there is a short somewhere. Hopefully Xantrex can provide a lead.

ebs001 · #9 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007

Cam, it's a good suggestion to call Xantrex. With phone in hand these companies can usually walk you through the trouble shooting alot better than we can.

SEMIJim · #10 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebs001

Cam, it's a good suggestion to call Xantrex. With phone in hand these companies can usually walk you through the trouble shooting alot better than we can.

Ya think that's work better than us throwing darts blindfolded?

Jim