water in engine oil?!?!? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 08-20-2007
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
msbam207 is on a distinguished road
water in engine oil?!?!?

Need some advice! I just completed half of the survey for a 1994 Catalina 400 (850 engine hours) that I have on contract... why half, you ask? early in the survey, my surveyor checked the engine oil dipstick and found milky colored oil - glaring evidence of water in the oil!

I called my broker and he found out that the seller had trouble starting the engine a week or so ago - apparently the westerbeke deisel needs some kind of preheating that wasnt happening. I'm told that, at that time, the techitian also found a cracked/bad engine exhaust heat exchanger (where coolant is cooled by pumped in water). This part was changed last night (night before the survey) and the oil was also changed.

My broker says that the seller may have cranked the starter too much, which pumps water into the heat exchanger - and that this is known as "hydro lock" (anyone ever heard of this?). The bad oil was drained today while we were doing the survey and the engine was run up to temp.

I'm confused as to how, even if the heat exchanger was bad, water would get into the engine oil? Is this the death nail for an engine? If the water was ingested only because of overcranking without the engine starting with this bad heat exchanger - and the engine was not run much with the water in it - is there any way to salvage the engine?

The current plan is for the seller to have the oil changed a few times and running the engine for a few hours in between each change - checking for any water in the oil obviously - to flush out any water. They will likely have the westerbeke service people pull off the valve covers to check for any damage, water, etc... My plan is to get more info on this engine issue and think about a major discount to the agreed apon price.

One other major problem found - water in the deck was detected around the mast area with at least 1 soft spot indicating a deteriorated core (i think it's balsa in this boat). Any idea on the seriousness of this? ways/cost to fix?

Thanks in advance for any advice....
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 08-20-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Hydrolocking marine diesels isn't all that uncommon a mistake.

What happens is that the water-lift muffler will bring water in as you crank the engine. If you crank the engine for more than about 20 seconds, depending on the exact design, the amount of water that comes in the exhaust can fill the muffler and enter the engine via the exhaust valves.

The reason this happens, is if the engine isn't running, the exhaust gas pressure that keeps the water level down in the water lift muffle doesn't exist. Once water enters the engine, it will cause the engine to "hydro lock" since water isn't compressible. This can cause a lot of engine damage, but doesn't always do so. The water could then leak from the hydrolocked cylinder into the crankcase, past the piston seals.

The soft spot around the deck you should ask CruisingDad about. Send him a PM or maybe, he'll check in this thread.

BTW, you really shouldn't start multiple threads on the same subject.

Personally, I'd walk away from this boat.... there are enough others that finding one without these issues isn't a big problem.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 08-20-2007 at 08:34 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 08-20-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,174
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 14
k1vsk will become famous soon enough
Hydrolock is a show-stopper as the water which would enter the cylinders from prolonged cranking and which obviously doesn't compress as the piston stoke requires results in severe internal damage. Having said that, water in the oil is likely an entirely seperate problem which could be a result of circumstances they described to you but it could be a more insidious and more extensive problem as well which they may or may not realize. In either case, the discount would have to be extraordinary to stop me from walking away had this been a purchase I was considering.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 08-20-2007
Zogumwesterly's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gulfport florida
Posts: 58
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Zogumwesterly is on a distinguished road
I don't know about the catalina 400, but my boat the exhaust discharge is just above the water line on the transom. when the boat is sailing at a good clip(especially on reaches) there is an induction at the transom from the suction created from the transom squatting and my muffler despite a large elbow would fill with water. I put a ball valve and a flap at the discharge and my new engine has not had any problems. the atomic 4 that I replaced was always having problems due to water intrusion.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 08-20-2007
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
MSBam...I know you don't want to hear this but my advice would be to walk away. There are too many potentially large, expensive and time consuming problems here on a popular and widely available boat to get involved.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 08-20-2007
Pamlicotraveler's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Creedmoor NC
Posts: 561
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Pamlicotraveler is on a distinguished road
There are double threads on this-

I don't know about the specifics, but I would be very cautious about anything the seller or the broker say about how it happened or what the lasting impact would be if they get it running again. You (they) need a qualified engine survey and opinion before going any further.

I personally would want to see 100 hours put on that engine before you I would take ownership. Watch out for a quick fix...remember what happened to Barney on the Andy Griffith show when he bought an old car and it had sawdust in the transmission - it thickened the fluid kept it from slipping during the trial, but only for a few days.

good luck...
remember, there are lots of boats out there.
__________________
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things y%^&*.....oh never mind. 90% of the people on sailing forums already use that as their signature! I'm not a conformist.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 08-20-2007
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
I have merged these duplicate threads so we may answer in one place.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 08-20-2007
I33 I33 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 124
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
I33 is on a distinguished road
Walk away

I recommend against purchasing the vessel. I had a similar experience on an Endeavour I was considering. The broker said that water had been found in the crankcase because the mixing elbow needed to be replaced. I asked what had been done to correct the problem and was told it did not affect the performance of the engine, so they were going to let the purchaser deal with it! They had been running the engine to motor the boat around the marina and on a test sail. Unbelievable! I cannot believe a truly professional broker would have taken that attitude.
__________________
Gil
s/v Truthsayer
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 08-20-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 522
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
rewell6 is on a distinguished road
Another vote for walkaway, unless you can get it for a very (and I mean very) good deal. And the rest of it is in good to excellent shape.

Consider the engine trashed, no matter what they tell you. A complete replacement. Don't just figure on a long block. Figure on replacing everything in the engine compartment including alternator, starter, injector pump, injectors, heat exchanger,exhaust manifold, etc., you get the drift. Plus a lot of labor charge. If you get it you might as well have it done right and won't have to worry about the engine or accessories for a long time.

I know nothing about the rot and that might just be the show stopper no matter how good the deal.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 08-20-2007
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,404
Thanks: 5
Thanked 67 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
I'd say you'd either walk, ah sod it , run away or at least remove the value of the engine from the price.
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Caring for the Cruising Outboard Doreen Gounard Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 04-22-2003 08:00 PM
Engine Oil Problem soylentgreen Gear & Maintenance 4 08-16-2002 10:17 AM
Replacing the Diesel Engine Sue & Larry Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 06-12-2000 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:47 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.