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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #1  
Old 08-24-2007
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Abigail Susan

Wow - looks like you did a great job on the recore, etc ...

Must be nice to have room in such a nice shop to have a boat there for so long. Also nice to have the number of people shown in the video on hand to help or cheer you on.

It looked like there were many spots of rot but you decided to recore all to have it done better. Is that correct?

Where do you get a power chisel? It seems a great tool.

What did you use for epoxy? Industrial epoxy in drums or West system? Why epoxy not polyester?

What was the Interlux Epoxy Paint you used on the topsides?

Did the previous owner know or acknowledge the extent of the core problem? How long did this project take and how many hours per week did you dedicate to the task?

Nicely done video documentation of the project. Were the two girls at teh end Abigail and Susan? Our first boat my wife wanted to call Chelsara after our daughters Chelsea and Sarah. We compromised with MonkeyBear as those were their nicknames at the time.

Mike

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Old 08-24-2007
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Epoxy is generally better for repairs as it is stronger, and creates better secondary bonds, so the repair is generally stronger than it would be with polyester or vinylester resins. It is also more water-impermeable.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #3  
Old 08-24-2007
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Sailingdog

You may be correct with that statement but a lot of materials such as firberglass do not adhere to epoxy properly. Does gelcoat? I believe I was told it does not so if doing surface repairs on a coachroof to be overcoated with gelcoat that may be a concern.

When I recored chainplate areas port/stbd I used west epoxy 105 with the fast hardener and for fairing west 407 low density filler. Is strong but the cure times are maddening when a lot of travel time to boatyard is involved.

When I recored cockpit floor I used polyester (or whatever normal fiberglass resin is called) and I had the entire rebuilding stage done in one day. This was recommended by a boat builder friend who does a lot of this. Also the gallon of polyester was $35 including hardener compared to a quart of West 105 at $39 and its hardener $19.

When I repaired the laser and was strengthening the repairs done by PO I ground around the edges and used polyester resins and cloth and then West 407 filler in the polyester for the fairing. great for cosmetics. When I had to replace a large section of deck and reattach the mast tube I used West epoxy and cursed the cure times (although I would apply a layer when previous layer still green) and the cost - but needed the strength.

I think we hobbyists tend to use epoxy too often when not needed but do agree it is stronger. In my cockpit floor anything is stronger than a delaminated floor with rotted core and polyester is what was built with anyway.

I hate the wait caused by epoxy cure times but do value its strength when needed.

Regards

Mike
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Old 08-24-2007
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I'm painfully aware of the long cure times involved, as I built a bridgedeck for my boat earlier this year, and the cooler temps I was working in meant that my progress was slower than I'd have liked.

As for gelcoat... from what I've read on the West Systems site, traditional gelcoat does adhere to epoxy reasonably well. Main problems with it are prepping the epoxy laminate properly before attempting to gel-coat, since the amine blush needs to be thoroughly removed.

Polyester and vinylester resins have very strong primary bonding characteristics, but their secondary bonding characteristics are pretty weak, especially on older fiberglass boats, where the styrene has had a chance to evaporate off completely. Epoxy is both stronger in tensile strength and has better secondary bonding characteristics than either polyester or vinylester resin. For this reason, it makes far more sense to repair with an epoxy rather than polyester or vinyester.

Fiberglass doesn't adhere to anything... it has no adhesive properties. Epoxy resin, used in laminating fiberglass, will adhere to fiberglass, gelcoat, glass fibers, fingers, toes, shoes...and most anything else it comes into contact with.

One disadvantage to epoxy resins is that they tend to soften under heat more readily than polyester or vinylester resins. That is one reason many epoxy-based fiberglass boats are painted white... and have caveats about painting them dark colors. A dark colored epoxy fiberglass boat may heat up enough for the epoxy to soften and the laminate to deform. If it cools, it will stay in the deformed shape permanently. YMMV.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 08-24-2007
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Thanks Sailingdog!

All very interesting and very good to know.

BTW - my experience with sailingdogs is varied. Had a Paceship P17 as a kid with shallow cockpit. The dog always begged to come so one day took him. A 140 lb Irish Wolfhound in a centerboard dingy not very good crew. He fell out and took a lot of work to get him back aboard. He complained far less than most crew though .... Mans best friend and all...

Dad took his Doberman sailing on his C&C36 while singlehanding in the Harbour. The doberman even less useful as crew than the Wolfhound. Didn't fall off but came close enough that the skipper had to leave the helm to keep him aboard ...

Mike
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What insanity possessed you to bring a very large dog like that aboard a centerboard dinghy???? And a C&C 36 is a lot bigger, and tougher to fall off of, having lifelines and all that...

This dog does okay.... doesn't get seasick... but is lousy crew.. too stubborn to follow directions at times.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 08-24-2007
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Well the P17 is a pretty stable boat and the dog insisted. He followeed me everywhere at the time. We were also never more than 100 feet from shore in a very protected inlet.

BTW - his name was Patrick
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