Halyard rope size (D & L)

kwaltersmi · #1 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007

The project boat I'm working on has what I believe are wire-to-rope halyards, but the ropes are missing. I also think the halyards were rigged to over the coach roof and back to the cockpit as evidenced by the bullseye fairleads and turning blocks on the coach roof. However, I've never actually seen this boat rigged.

The boat is a 1972 Helms 25. What size halyard rope (length & diameter) do you think I should use? How is this determined?

Thanks!

(I need to stop logging into this forum...I'm learning wayyyy too much about sailing.)

deniseO30 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007

Most of the lines on my hunter 23 were 3/8" If they were let back to the cockpit it was set up for single handing is my guess! Lucky you!

CharlieCobra · #3 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007

I'd go with straight rope halyards m'self. My boat was originally wire to rope. Depending on the sail size, 5/16 or 3/8 would work. As far as length is concerned, Mast height X 2 plus the run back to the cockpit would work.

kwaltersmi · #4 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007

Charlie - Mast height x2 for just the rope if I stay with wire to rope, or for the complete halyard (wire & rope)?

sailingfool · #5 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwaltersmi

The project boat I'm working on has what I believe are wire-to-rope halyards, but the ropes are missing. I also think the halyards were rigged to over the coach roof and back to the cockpit as evidenced by the bullseye fairleads and turning blocks on the coach roof. However, I've never actually seen this boat rigged.

The boat is a 1972 Helms 25. What size halyard rope (length & diameter) do you think I should use? How is this determined?

Thanks!

(I need to stop logging into this forum...I'm learning wayyyy too much about sailing.)

You need to start with nothing bigger than whatever size line will fit in the sheaves installed in the mast, and whatever turning blocks are used. Don't mess with wire-to-rope, get all rope. Change the sheaves if they are for wire. I would doubt that a boat this age originally came with halyards to the cockpit, so if it is setup that way, some PO probably has changed everything at some point. Call the staff at www.layline.com if you want good advice on high tech line. As to length, add 10 feet to the estimates above so you can secure the jib halyard to the bow pulpit and the main to the rail, so they don't slap the mast all night, and have some working length left over.

Is there a winch for the jib halyard somewhere?

KeelHaulin · #6 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007

Measure your mast height; multiply by 2, add length for deck routing, add 5-10 feet for a decent tail; add 10-15 feet for eye and back splicing the ends. If you have ~20 feet extra when you are done it will allow you to swap eye for back splices and reverse the halyard at a later date to move the wear points to the opposite end.

These are rough estimates; if anyone has a better plan please post an improved scheme.

If you want to replicate the performance of wire halyards you should look for an equivalent strength dyneema or vectran cored line; but that stuff is VERY expensive. I don't think it's necessary in most cases; just pointing out that low stretch is the main consideration for using wire or high tech cordage. There are blends of dyneema and other fibers that are much more reasonably priced...

CaptainForce · #7 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007

You may not have to change the sheaves; many of these are designed to accomodate wire and rope. You will not need the wire with the modern low stretch line available. You might rather have the largest line that your fairleads can accomodate for the sake of hand comfort. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

telekitr · #8 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainForce

You may not have to change the sheaves; many of these are designed to accomodate wire and rope. You will not need the wire with the modern low stretch line available. You might rather have the largest line that your fairleads can accomodate for the sake of hand comfort. 'take care and joy, Aythya crew

Large is good for hand comfort. But, keep in mind the larger you go, the more friction will be in the system so try to find a good compromise between what you can tolerate in your hands (use sailing gloves if you have to) and what will "run" freely. There is nothing worse than fighting with a halyard that won't come down or go up because the diameter is too big.

kwaltersmi · #9 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007

Good advice everyone, thanks.

The consensus seems to be that I should switch to all-rope halyards. What's the reasoning for this? My reasons for keeping the wire are: my budget and simplicity (I wouldn't have to replace sheaves, etc.).

sailingdog · #10 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007

The all-rope setups reduce weight aloft, may last a bit longer—since you can reverse the halyards to spread out the wear points, may be a bit less expensive in the long run—since rope is generally less money than wire and doesn't require a rope-to-wire splice, easier on the hands...

If you decide to go to all-rope... you will want to check the exit slots as well as the sheaves to make sure there isn't any damage to will chafe through the rope halyards.