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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #11  
Old 10-30-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekka View Post
Why is that?

I see so many on ebya, the Knotmaster, Mk III, KDO, KDS, Trident, Cherub, Excelsior, etc. Is there a place to find descriptions of the differences?
Trekka,
The short story is that the Trident and Cherub are large logs designed for ships. They both use the Cherub style fish which is very large at 15” long and are intended to be mounted 20 to 30 feet above the water. The Trident is the larger of the two and uses an external flywheel which is 11”: in diameter. The storage box for the Cherub is 19” X 11” X 6” and the storage box for the Trident is 20” X 12” X 9” so you can see they are major pieces of equipment.

The Knotmaster and Excelsior are intended for smaller boats and the fish for the Excelsior series is 11” long and the fish for the Knotmaster types are only 5” long. The Knotmaster series includes the KDO and KDS MK IIIA logs with the difference being a electric pick up in the KDO so the log can be read in the wheelhouse. The Excelsior series includes the MK IV and MK III and they both use the 11” fish. The difference is one has a right angle head and is easer to read. The box for the Excelsior is 15” X 7” X 5.5” and the box for the Knotmaster is only 12.5” X 6.75” X 6” so you can see they are much smaller logs and are both practical to store and use on a small boat.

The Cherub and Trident are both only available in a taffrail mount while both the Knotmaster and Excelsior are available in sling mount and taffrail mount versions.

I like the MK IV sling mount log because of the versatility that type of mount offers and the larger fish means greater accuracy. The Knotmaster has a 5” fish instead of the 11” the Excelsior uses and anything can interfere with it. A small piece of seaweed and the Knotmaster is out of action while the 11” fish on the Excelsior just shrugs things like that off.

The Cherub III
www.offsoundings.info/cherub-III.jpg

The Trident
www.offsoundings.info/trident.jpg

The difference between the KDS MK IIIA and the MK IV Excelsior
www.offsoundings.info/kds-mk-iv.jpg

All the fish together so you can see the size difference
www.offsoundings.info/fish.jpg

Some of the pictures have a yardstick included for reference
Hope some of this helps,
Robert Gainer
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2007
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There are different options out there too. Lionel, the toy train maker, had produced a few different logs too. I don't know of the quality or accuracy of those units though.

One of the coolest things I've seen was a walker depth sounder. It had an impeller that engaged when dropping down, but the disengaged when being hauled back up. The dials where right on the unit and ticked away while descending. I only ever saw one, and it was $$$$. Very cool though.
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In my search for the walker depth sounder i came across this link:
http://www.westsea.com/tsg3/catlocker/cat03chart.htm
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Sapperwhite,
Did Lionel make anything other then the TTL log on a government contract? A nice log but designed for ships and a very poor mounting system if used on a yacht. Also the fish are hard to come by so it’s an expensive log to run. I think given everything I think it’s a good display but I wouldn’t want to use one. They are lots of other logs available in addition to the Walkers but most suffer form from one problem or another when used on a yacht. I think the only practical ones are the Walker MK IV and MK IIIA with a strong personal preference for the MK IV.
All the best,
Robert Gainer

Disclaimer,
This post expresses a personal opinion and your own mileage may vary. Other opinions may be available and be more or less valid depending on the contributors experience and skill set.
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Study the history of naval architecture and move forward knowing what didnít work before.

Donít waste time making the same old mistakes but instead make new ones and to insure your place in history be sure the mistakes are big ones.

Never design a mast that is weaker then the boat
Never design a boat that is weaker then the mast

Never listen to someone describe why your project will not work unless they can show you the broken pieces of their own version.

Last edited by Tartan34C; 10-30-2007 at 08:20 PM.
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Like i said, I don't know much about the lionels, only that some existed. I also, don't know nearly as much as you about walkers. Is there anywhere to get extra fish and line weights? I would really like to have some on hand just in case.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapperwhite View Post
Like i said, I don't know much about the lionels, only that some existed. I also, don't know nearly as much as you about walkers. Is there anywhere to get extra fish and line weights? I would really like to have some on hand just in case.
Itís hard to find fish for the Knotmaster. The best place may be e-Bay. You can make a weight by yourself. They are not very critical so you have room to play.

To have a better chance of keeping your existing fish try keeping them painted flat black.
All the best,
Robert Gainer.
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  #17  
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Wow thanks for this boat-load of info!!! I'll touch back here with what I find.

Bill, I will send you an email in the morning when I'm rested. I've been up all day and I'm pooped.
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Old 11-03-2007
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Thanks for the excellent desricption of the differences between the various Walkers.

For a couple of years I monitored eBay for logs. I saved pictures of various Walkers as well as James Bliss and even the Lionel logs (that one really surprised me - I wondered if it had a smoke option). If anyone is interested I can post some of them on a picture sharing site.
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Old 11-03-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekka View Post
If anyone is interested I can post some of them on a picture sharing site.
It would be great if you could do that. I would enjoy looking at them.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
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Study the history of naval architecture and move forward knowing what didnít work before.

Donít waste time making the same old mistakes but instead make new ones and to insure your place in history be sure the mistakes are big ones.

Never design a mast that is weaker then the boat
Never design a boat that is weaker then the mast

Never listen to someone describe why your project will not work unless they can show you the broken pieces of their own version.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2007
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Pictures of Logs

I have begun posting pictures of various log sets, including some sales info from eBay. (I edited the eBay copies to remove any personal info such as seller or buyer.) http://www.flickr.com/photos/1143502...7602992341260/
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