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  #81  
Old 03-14-2008
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Last edited by erps; 03-17-2008 at 10:36 AM.
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  #82  
Old 03-16-2008
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I just want to add one more comment for those of you who use portable generators on your boat ( not on the dock or ashore). If you read your owners manual you will see that all of them say, "not for marine use" So what does that mean to you? It means that by using it on the boat you void the warranty. So should something go wrong with the unit, not even considering the really bad things that can go wrong, you are going to have to foot the bill yourself. So you'll just not tell them, right? Good luck.
Here's my pdf on portable vs permanently installed again. http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/portable.pdf
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  #83  
Old 03-16-2008
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I jist pulled out my H2000 genset warranty docs and manual - neither has such an exclusion
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  #84  
Old 03-17-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peikenberry View Post
I just want to add one more comment for those of you who use portable generators on your boat ( not on the dock or ashore). If you read your owners manual you will see that all of them say, "not for marine use" So what does that mean to you? It means that by using it on the boat you void the warranty. So should something go wrong with the unit, not even considering the really bad things that can go wrong, you are going to have to foot the bill yourself. So you'll just not tell them, right? Good luck.
Here's my pdf on portable vs permanently installed again. http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/portable.pdf


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  #85  
Old 03-22-2008
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K1vsk;

Thank you for your comment. Since then I have been surfing the net (amazing how many users manuals are available on the net) and going to various places that sell generators and reading the user manuals. You are absolutely right. It's not there. Sometime between about 2004 and now the manuals changed. I looked at no less than 6 different manufacturers of portable generators, and they all use the same wording in their user manuals. There must be a trade association or a standard society that puts the manual together and all the company has to do is change the names.

However, my 2004 Onan Generator has the following statement on the inside of the title page. And I checked Onan's new RV generators. They all still have this warning. It's also in their HomeSite Portables but not in the inverter generators manuals.





This warning was in every non-marine generator manual I have looked at for at least the last 20 years.

I don't know why they have taken this out. They still have warnings about using them indoors or in a confined space, or using them in a wet environment. [QUOTE
Do not operate in rain, in wet or damp conditions, or with wet hands.
The operator may suffer severe electric shock if the generator is wet due to rain or snow
][/QUOTE]
Of course this means I have to change the document on my web site as well.

I also intend to take this up at the next meeting of the American Boat and Yacht Council Electrical Committee. This warning really should be included.
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Old 03-22-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peikenberry View Post

I also intend to take this up at the next meeting of the American Boat and Yacht Council Electrical Committee. This warning really should be included.
The warning was probably removed because they have been used successfully in marine environments...it takes an act of god to remove warning labels to begin with as they are govt mandated for the most part. My Honda EU didn't come with one - I operate per instructions onboard my sailing vessel... it works...

Kinda confused here...or are you actually exhibiting that kind of influence because you can - that because it doesn't have an marine usage label (and subsequent price tag) on it - that therefore it shouldn't be used and condoned for such use... in which case - I would rather prefer you ask why these gens can not be used and report back actual reasons....not a personal attack ... just simply we have tons of usage reports and nary a "this happened because we used one" report...Kinda reminds me of the "do not use solder" per ABYC ... it works and can be as solid / long lasting as a crimp with the proper procedure...
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  #87  
Old 03-22-2008
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Kinda reminds me of the McDonalds coffee warning!

Warning: this coffee may be hot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could it cause burns? I guess it could.

Do millions of people operate their McDonalds coffee cups without incident every day. I'll go out on a limb and say yes!

Sometimes warning labels are there because someone did something incredibly silly and got hurt. Not because the device/product was inherently unsafe.
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  #88  
Old 03-22-2008
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Both of your comments are reasonable and well taken. And I don'tmake personal attacks. I try to base my reasons on good engineering practice. Actually most of the warning labels you see on boats or marine equipment are not government mandated. They are there, as PilotAlso said, because someone did something stupid, then blamed it on the manufacturer, successfully sued, and got a bundle of money. It's the old "failure to warn" syndrome. The MacDonald's coffee cup label is a case in point. My favorite example of "failure to warn" gone wild, is the guy who sued the National Park Service because he was struck by lightning while standing atop Half Dome in Yosemite. There is now a sign there that tells you that you can be struck by lightning. Anyway most of the labels you see now are required by insurance and various voluntary standards societies such as ABYC, SAE, NFPA and so on. A lot of them have been included in ISO standards as well. NMMA has a plethora of warning labels you must put on your boat to be NMMA certified. But the USCG requires only five labels, and on some boats, such as sailboats, none!, unless they have a gasoline inboard, which most do not have these days. (unless you bring that gasoline generator on board)

But I am not an attorney. I am an engineer. And even though I spent 25 years working for USCG in Boating Safety, I would agree that the labeling thing has really gotten out of hand! Have you looked at the labels on a PWC lately? Any way, as a member of the electrical PTC I can bring it up for discussion. The committee is not just old govt far** like me, but boatbuilders, people from the electrical industry and quite a few of the people who make generators. I will introduce it because I believe it is a legitimate safety issue, from the perspective of shock hazard, carbon monoxide hazard, and gasoline vapor hazards. I am sure it will result in a lively discussion. And since the standards are consensus standards, then whatever the majority thinks will become the standard. Also any concerned person can write ABYC and have their input.

And no, there is not, as far as I know, any large body of data sitting out there to base this on. There have been carbon monoxide poisonings, and electrocutions, most not on boats, but as far as I know no fires or explosions. ( I do know of one fire, but the damn fool left the generator running in his closed up garage, sitting in the bed of his pickup truck)

Anyway, either way, they just went through a five year cycle on the electrical standard so if it was accepted, you wouldn't see them for another five years. Plus that, I am not sure that since these are portable generators, ABYC has any input anyway. But there must be an organization that does, such as NFPA or SAE. I will talk to the folks at Onan and see what they say.
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  #89  
Old 03-22-2008
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It is becoming increasingly difficult, due to litigation issues, to separate the "cover our ass/keep the morons alive" warnings from actual warnings one wouldn't necessarily be aware of, like "third rail is live!"

Sometimes I harbour evil thoughts about running the world, removing half the current warning labels and improving the species thereby by letting nature take its course...Backcountry skiing, PWC games of chicken, why, all of the Darwinian Sports could work their magic to make us a fractionally smarter bunch of primates.
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Old 03-22-2008
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V - I like your new world.......nor more power boat wakes....nice.....
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