Universal M2-12 Overheating - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 11 Old 12-09-2007 Thread Starter
phallo 1, Gustav 0
 
phallo153's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 141
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Universal M2-12 Overheating

I had some engine work done over the last two months, and everything was finally completed and put back together at the yard yesterday, with one problem: the engine was operating at the high end of the normal 165-195° range. The yard check the raw water impeller and it was fine, there was flow out the exhaust, so they suspected the heat exchanger.

Since it is literally a few hundred yards to my slip, I decided to take her home and see if I could fix the problem myself. Started off fine, water coming out of the exhaust, the temp rose steadily to about 160-180, but after a few minutes shot up to 220 - obviously out of range. By then I was at the slip, so I cut the engine and glided in. Total time yard to slip maybe 3-5 minutes.

First things first, I checked the raw water impeller myself - very small crack in one of the vanes, but other than that it was fine (meaning no missing pieces - but it will be replaced anyway).

I have a hot water heater and a reservoir in the lazarette; it was completely empty, and is usually at least half full. So, there may not have been enough water/AF added into the fresh water circuit when it was put back together.

I removed the heat exchanger and flushed it out with fresh water; there was a fair amount of silt/dirt on the raw water side. When I took off the end cover/gasket, there was some crud but no noticeable scaling (at least not to me... the PO had the HE serviced about 2 years ago by a local radiator shop). Then I looked closer - at least two holes on the raw water intake side were plugged with black plastic, with some other loose pieces of plastic and zinc remnants. I gently ran a wire down each tube and unplugged some junk from the other end, then flushed it out through the zinc mount. All told, here's just some of what came out, mostly on the raw intake side. The Yard was pretty sure this was causing enough obstruction of the raw water flow to cause the overheating:


Here's a shot of the tubing - does that appear to be in pretty decent shape? I will probably drop it off for servicing this week:


Tomorrow if I get a chance I'll check the thermostat and mixing elbow, any other suggestions?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by phallo153; 12-09-2007 at 01:26 AM.
phallo153 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 Old 12-09-2007
humble pie rat
 
CapnHand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 867
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
You may have fixed it already with what you've done. Put it back together and see if it works as it should.

There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
CapnHand is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 11 Old 12-09-2007
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
I've never seen a coin-operated freshwater pump.... Maybe you shouldn't be putting pennies in the pump.

Did you flush the freshwater side of the heat exchanger? Have you inspected the freshwater side... if you haven't it might need a good cleaning and flush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phallo153 View Post
I removed the heat exchanger and flushed it out with fresh water; there was a fair amount of silt/dirt on the raw water side. When I took off the end cover/gasket, there was some crud but no noticeable scaling (at least not to me... the PO had the HE serviced about 2 years ago by a local radiator shop). Then I looked closer - at least two holes on the raw water intake side were plugged with black plastic, with some other loose pieces of plastic and zinc remnants. I gently ran a wire down each tube and unplugged some junk from the other end, then flushed it out through the zinc mount. All told, here's just some of what came out, mostly on the raw intake side. The Yard was pretty sure this was causing enough obstruction of the raw water flow to cause the overheating:


Here's a shot of the tubing - does that appear to be in pretty decent shape? I will probably drop it off for servicing this week:


Tomorrow if I get a chance I'll check the thermostat and mixing elbow, any other suggestions?

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 12-09-2007 at 12:50 PM.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 11 Old 12-09-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,364
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Damn heat exchangers!
Are you watching there Northeaster?

Looks like bit of an old impeller there.
Rockter is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 11 Old 12-09-2007 Thread Starter
phallo 1, Gustav 0
 
phallo153's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 141
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
SD - I did flush the freshwater side, but can't see into it. Didn't notice any debris or dirt when I flushed it, and it seems to flow fine. Here's a pic of the exchanger - only access is the end cap:



I also pulled the thermostat and tested it... it's opening up at about 175°, I'm guessing that's normal for an engine operating range of 165-195°. No idea how old the thermostat is, so I ordered a new one anyway. I also checked the raw water injection port at mixing elbow, no blockage or buildup that I can tell.



I think I've covered everything short of pulling the elbow off the manifold...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
phallo153 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 11 Old 12-09-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Beacon Falls CT USA
Posts: 310
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
The debris does look like old impeller parts...and too big to have gotten past the intake side, strainer and all that.

What can you tell us about the history of the boat OR the nature of the 'engine work' that was commissioned prior to this issue?
Pub911 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 11 Old 12-09-2007 Thread Starter
phallo 1, Gustav 0
 
phallo153's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 141
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
I lost compression back in October after 5-10 mins of motoring out of the marina, and had it towed into a local yard; diagnosis was a piece of metal from the air filter/silencer worked it's way down the intake and stuck a valve open. It took well over a month to get the parts in and the head put back on.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
phallo153 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 11 Old 01-01-2008 Thread Starter
phallo 1, Gustav 0
 
phallo153's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 141
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Update:
Solved the overheating problem a few week ago - I had some scale in the coolant return from the hot water heater, which is located in the lazarette. I took the heater off the coolant circuit and everything is fine temperature-wise. Once I get all the hoses cleaned and some connections replaced I'll plumb the heater back in.

I took the boat for a short run last week and am still getting some (what appears to be) black/dark gray smoke when put under a certain amount of load. The first time was when I put it in reverse to stop forward motion and swing us around in a basin. It started to put out more smoke than normal, smoke was also mixed with the exhaust water. Cleared up right away when I put in forward.

Then we motored at probably 2-3 knots and when were clear of the harbor, throttled up (no tach so don't know RPM's, but probably 60% of full power). Boat seemed to struggle, did not want to speed up much more, and started to smoke more until I throttled back.

The engine runs smooth, sounds great, and does not overheat anymore. It just doesn't respond well like before to increased power and seems struggles when trying to go above 3-3.5 knots.

Besides a fouled bottom (it is a bit slimy) and/or prop, what else should be suspect? I plan to arrange a haul-out shortly, and will replace fuel and filters.

Specs:
1) No overheating - runs at low end of temp range.
2) No noticeable smoke under low load - have to hold hand over exhaust to see it.
3) Shaft can be turned by hand rather easily in neutral
4) Stuffing box cool after several minutes of running in forward (shaft doesn't appear to be obstructed)
5) Engine sounds and runs smooth
6) Dark gray/black smoke, sooty water under load (sorry don't know specific rpm, when trying to go above 2-3 knots)
7) Increasing throttle normally responded right away, up to hull speed (6.3) rather quickly; now it seems to struggle to get over 3 knots or so.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by phallo153; 01-01-2008 at 07:13 PM.
phallo153 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 11 Old 01-02-2008
Senior Member
 
JimsCAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 2,895
Thanks: 2
Thanked 76 Times in 70 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
I would first check the prop. Sounds like it's fouled since you say engine runs and sounds great. Fouling would prevent the prop from producing thrust which is what moves the boat.
JimsCAL is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 11 Old 01-02-2008
Senior Member
 
NOLAsailing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 504
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
There are a variety of things that can cause black smoke. It's fairly common, particularly on motors that are a little bit older, to be present on start up or when power is applied quickly. Black smoke is the result of carbon build up from inefficiently burned fuel exiting via the exhaust.

It can occur at start up or when power is applied because fuel is dumped into the cylinders at a quicker rate than the motor is running at.

However, if it is persistent, then you have a definite problem. Because it is caused by inefficient combustion, there are two common root causes: air and fuel delivery.

Clean, sufficient air is needed for efficient combustion. If you have a dirty or blocked air filter, that could be a source of the problem.

More commonly, though, it's the fuel delivery. The most common problem there is your fuel injectors. If they are blocked, dirty, or incorrectly installed (cough, cough, Northshore Marine, cough) then they won't be properly injecting fuel into the cylinders. If the fuel isn't properly atomizing because the injectors aren't spraying it well, or if fuel continues to leak post-combustion, then that excess fuel will cause black smoke.

It could also be another issue with your fuel delivery system, but I would first suspect the injectors.

-Jason

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
NOLAsailing is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Overheating Universal 5411 JohnBassett Gear & Maintenance 20 05-20-2009 11:54 AM
dipstick for Universal M4-30 replaces A4 jknappsax Gear & Maintenance 0 11-13-2006 06:46 PM
Overheating Perkins 4-108 Eleanna Gear & Maintenance 13 07-24-2006 06:59 AM
Universal to Yanmar wallyag Gear & Maintenance 2 07-05-2002 03:24 PM
Universal diesel 5411 rmiille Gear & Maintenance 1 12-30-2001 06:01 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome