Replace Atomic 4 with Electric Motor? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #11  
Old 01-04-2008
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 3,659
Thanks: 124
Thanked 72 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Thanks SD. IIRC the article was about the Lepoard 4300E, which is also used by the Moorings as their 4300.

But now I'm confused... From http://www.cruisingworld.com/boats-a...ami-49968.html
"The Moorings 4300 relies on a diesel-powered DC generator, which drives the electric propulsion unit in a green box located "under an aft bunk that measures one foot by two feet by one foot," says Burton. "It's incredible."

According to the Moorings, what makes the system unique is that the propulsion system doesn't use extra batteries for energy storage; instead, it combines Glacier Bay's OSSA Powerlite propulsion unit with an OSSA Powerlite DC generator system, which also feeds the boat's other house systems."

I dropped my membership in CW, so I don't think that I can dig up the original article.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105 Certified Instructor - Also certified in Recreational Marine Electrical Systems

Last edited by eherlihy; 01-04-2008 at 11:56 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 01-04-2008
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ChrisAndVero is on a distinguished road
We have been using a Minnkota 55Lbs. thrust trolling motor for our 20' boat for two seasons now. It runs for ~3 hours at max thrust off of two type 24 batteries and the whole assembly (seems to) weigh about as much as the 8HP motor and a full gas tank. The OB is for sale, BTW

In my research, I found that electric is not really measured in HP, but in pounds of thrust. A rough conversion is 1Lbs thrust to 1HP, but then the discussion gets very technical (to me) in terms of prop shape. Basically, my electric motor does not ever get us going fast- tops is about 4-5 knots VoG, but we can go that velocity in a 30 knot wind. Yeah, we probably should not have tried sailing that day!

I have been thinking about mounting the motor directly to the boat instead of off the transom motor bracket. Re-e-power is top of my list and I hope to run into them at a boat show soon. There is at least one other company that sells an 'electric engine' for boats. Re-e-power's design sits outside the hull, like my idea to mount the Minnkota (Minnkota also sells engine mount electric motors that look like they could be attached to the hull easily). The other option I saw on the web uses an electric motor inside the boat- a la replacing the Atomic.

I like the regenerative aspect of Re-e-power, but cannot find any data on it. Does anyone else use one or have information? I imagine it would work much like a towed generator, but how many amps/knot would be nice to see on their webpage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 01-04-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
IIRC, the Lagoons use a regenerative system that allows them to use the prop to generate electricity under sail. There was an article about it here. A regenerative system by definition needs batteries or some other form of energy storage.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 01-04-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 136
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
Wannafish is on a distinguished road
Lots of valuable insight here, and all appreciated. My thoughts were if I'm going to have a generator anyway, why not have it large enough to drive the propulsion system too. Especially since I had heard of others (though definately not in the majority) doing something similiar.

Concerns about wet environments for electrical systems, and the need to change the AC oupout of the Genny over to DC hadn't even crossed my mind. That in itself is probably enough to eliminate my changeover.
Even if I could overcome those issues, I have a feeling there are a dozen more that haven't been discussed yet that would in turn lead to a dozen more...

Thanks to all for the input. I haven't necessarily crossed it off my "must have" list - but is is moving further and further down it.

More comments are most welcome!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 01-04-2008
HoffaLives's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: my mother's basement
Posts: 531
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
HoffaLives is on a distinguished road
you should really consider doing more in-depth research. what you are proposing is really on the cutting edge of new boat technology, and as such there are a lot of questions and the cost is high. But from what I've researched, electric marine motors are much more reliable and quiet and efficient than the best internal combustion engine. hell, only one moving part! it's the batteries that makes the cost high and maintenance becomes more of an issue. but that's the big bugaboo with any battery-powered form of transport.

the genset to electric motor is actually quite old technology and has been used on many applications including freight trains for years. but while it has great advantages when moving hundreds of thousands of tons, it likely loses some in the micro scale you are talking about.
__________________
red peril
severodvinsk class russian submarine
1993
364 feet

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

our life afloat:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 01-04-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 501
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 14
Quickstep192 is on a distinguished road
The Hinckley 42 daysailer has an electric motor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 01-05-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Freight trains have less issues with weight and mass, and don't subject the electrical system to quite so much salt water or humidity. Also, the one major problem with them is getting a reliable throttle system... and one that isn't going to die under the conditions that a small sailboat would subject it to. Most small sailboats are fairly wet beasties... unlike a Lagoon 40'+ catamaran—they heel, they take water over the rail, they get water in the cockpit that sometimes ends up in the bilge... etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoffaLives View Post
you should really consider doing more in-depth research. what you are proposing is really on the cutting edge of new boat technology, and as such there are a lot of questions and the cost is high. But from what I've researched, electric marine motors are much more reliable and quiet and efficient than the best internal combustion engine. hell, only one moving part! it's the batteries that makes the cost high and maintenance becomes more of an issue. but that's the big bugaboo with any battery-powered form of transport.

the genset to electric motor is actually quite old technology and has been used on many applications including freight trains for years. but while it has great advantages when moving hundreds of thousands of tons, it likely loses some in the micro scale you are talking about.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 01-07-2008
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Captsomer is on a distinguished road
I think the technology for the electric drive system is here and available today. The prices are still a bit high but…. Several companies have systems that have been working fine, and the electric car guys have been at it for a while with success. I think as the battery technology continues to advance, this idea will become more and more popular and the prices will become a bit more reasonable.

Anyway, contact Electric Vehicles of America (Google them). They have built electric propulsion systems for boats before. They should be able the assist you. Also try elcoelectriclaunch.com, they build some very nice launches that are powered by electric.

PS If an electric golf cart can withstand all the abuse that it sees and keep on going, I think we can put a similar system in a boat and expect it to run also. There are ways of keeping things reasonably dry and clean.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 01-08-2008
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
DanMendat is on a distinguished road
Hello,
New to this forum, but glad to see the discussion about electric propulsion. Re-e-power has electric motors, of various sizes, that mount to the bottom of your haul similiar to a saildrive that operate at either 36 or 48 volts which means you only need 3, 4, or 6 (12v or 6v) batteries wired in series. Their control systems are based on the tried and tested electric golf cart controllers and switches able to take serious abuse and available anywhere golf carts parts are sold. A real do-it-yourself system which I have installed on my 1976 Southcoast 22. I just did a test run of the new system 2000+ on Lake Erie on Jan. 6, 08 and video taped it. Check it out at youtube and search danielmendat. (Can't post links yet, I'm too new) My original motor was a 6hp Johnson 2 stroke and I can say after this last test that the E-pod is as powerful if not more and much more maneuverable. The video will explain why. I don't work for re-e-power, its just the solution that I've been looking for since I bought my trailer sailor. Nothing better than silently leaving the dock to set sail. No fumes, no stalling, no gear grinding, no fuel tank, and no greasy hands. Best thing I ever bought.
Dan Mendat
1976 SC 22
"Silence"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 01-09-2008
jonlgauthier's Avatar
Full-time Cruiser
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Aboard
Posts: 62
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 15
jonlgauthier is on a distinguished road
Wannafish,

I'm guessing you've been dissuaded from trying to go the diesel-electric route (the correct term for what you were thinking of doing).

Overall, the concept is great, but you won't be able to do it very well - and cheaply - by using your existing Onan genset.

For one, electric propulsion motors (with the exception of the Re-E-Power) typically run at 240Vdc or higher. Your Onan produces 120/240Vac. And it probably isn't rated for propulsion duty. The engine may be, but the generator may not be able to put out near max current continually. And an AC induction motor for propulsion gets a bit complicated when it comes to speed control. You'd have to modify the genset output to DC.

I looked into it when we were repowering our Formosa 51 - and couldn't justify the cost - it would have been about double the installed cost of our Westerbeke 120-T4 and their BTD7.6 genset. Let the boatbuilders get some experience and the quantity up so that the price comes down - in the future I believe all 30-34 footers will be diesel-electric. They are more fuel-efficient, and the ability to have a prop with full torque at just a few RPM's give new meaning to low-speed handling.
__________________
Cap'n Jon
KB1HTW
S/V Beausoleil
1979 Formosa 51 Ketch
Homeport: Marblehead, MA USA
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
hybrid electric bluetommy77 Gear & Maintenance 11 10-20-2007 02:35 PM
electric motor for dingy saurav16 Gear & Maintenance 4 07-11-2007 03:46 PM
Electric Motors and Sailing Vessels Mark Matthews Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 11-17-2002 08:00 PM
The Great Windlass Debate SailNet Seamanship Articles 0 11-30-2001 08:00 PM
The Great Windlass Debate SailNet Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 11-30-2001 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:21 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.