Crimping versus Soldering - Page 11 - SailNet Community

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  #101  
Old 02-29-2008
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sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice
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  #102  
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Ok

That was 101 you can pull the plug now CD....Wait ...no...No...I didn't...mean on me...Arrrrg...
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  #103  
Old 03-01-2008
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I don't recall seeing it mentioned, but maybe it's too obvious. Crimping is EASIER than soldering.
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  #104  
Old 03-01-2008
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One other good thing about crimping... it doesn't require electricity or messing around with hot objects, which is very much a good thing, when you're trying to repair a broken wire, head down through a bilge hatch, on a boat that is rolling with heavy seas.
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  #105  
Old 03-07-2008
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Just to put the icing on the cake - The ABYC standards do not alow for soldered only connection - the connection must be of some type of mechanical means (crimping).
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  #106  
Old 03-07-2008
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Some other interesting..

Here are some other interesting points from ABYC E-11:

"Conductors shall be at least 16 AWG. EXCEPTIONS: 1. 18 AWG conductors may be used if included with other conductors in a sheath and do not extend more than 30 inches (760mm) outside the sheath.” 11.16.1.1.2."


"Conductors used for panelboard or switchboard main feeders, bilge blowers, electronic equipment, navigation lights, and other circuits where voltage drop must be kept to a minimum, shall be sized for a voltage drop not to exceed three percent”.

"Conductors used for lighting, other than navigation lights, and other circuits where voltage drop is not critical, shall be sized for a voltage drop not to exceed 10 percent.”

"Solderless crimp on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used, and that will produce a connection meeting the requirements of E-11.16.3.3.” 11.16.3.8."

"Current-carrying conductors shall be routed as high as practicable above the bilge water level and other areas where water may accumulate. If conductors must be routed in the bilge or other areas where water may accumulate, the connections shall be watertight.”11.16.4.1.6."

"Terminal connectors shall be the ring or captive spade types.” 11.16.3.4."

"Twist on connectors, i.e., wire nuts, shall not be used.” 11.16.3.6."

"Ring and captive spade type terminal connectors shall be the same nominal size as the stud.” 11.16.4.1.12."

"The construction of insulated cables and conductors shall conform with the requirements of: 11.16.1.2.2.1. UL 1426, Cables for Boats…”11.16.1.2.2.”

"Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.”11.16.3.7."
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  #107  
Old 07-12-2008
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next to a uniform crimp the next most important idea is preventing corrosion. A trick I learned in the Alarm/Security Industry is to use Vasoline. Coat both the wires and the inside of the connector before crimping and sealing.
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  #108  
Old 07-13-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I am not trying to bring up another very heated argument on this board, but I would like to tell anyone still soldering that almost without exception, EVERY soldered joint on the V-42 we have is corroding and failing. It may have taken close to 20 years to do it, but we did not find these issues on ANY of the crimped joints... NONE.

If that is not a first hand testimonial to crimp over solder, I do not know what is.

- CD
As a retired aerospace engineer I never saw a soldered connection on ANY flight or weapon hardware... BUT the crimping tool is a very special item that UNIFORMLY compresses the sleeve.... ain't your typical Ace Hdwre tool!
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  #109  
Old 07-14-2008
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It was said a few pages back, regarding liquid insulation...that it does have it's uses.

I think that answer touches on the real answer to crimp vs. solder....it completely depends on your application.

As an Air Force electronics tech, I was taught in Tech School to always crimp, then solder, all connections to lugs, with non-corrosive, electronics-grade solder, NOT the stuff you find at Home Depot.

As for the threat of creating a solid conductor by allowing solder to flow/wick up into the conductor, ...as another poster here tried to state (although doing so with a typo "...use a heat shrink" ...I think he said)...we were taught to use a heat sink such as an alligator clip, or an actual solder heat sink, clipped just ahead of where the bare wire goes into the insulation, to absorb heat, cool the wire beyond that point, and prevent the wicking of liquid solder into the wire, thereby preventing creating that solid wire we all agree would be bad due to vibration eventually cracking it.

But the key here is the application....I was being taught electronics repair of radios and antenna wires that would be exposed to the elements, not doing auto and boat power wiring. We can not issue unequivocal decrees about what should and should not ever be done....we must consider application.

I can attest to the vibration my Newport 27's Universal 5411 diesel creates in and around the engine compartment, so will take under advisement the information shared here on this forum....the vibration from that diesel, especially with all my ground wires attached at a shared engine bolt, is likely to cause some of those connections to fracture, because I'm sure I did not adequately prevent the wicking of solder down the conductor.

But away from the engine compartment's vibration, crimping, along with solder, and then shrink wrap or silicone grease or dielectric paste, would definitely seal that connection against corrosion if done right...sealed more perfectly than crimping and shrink wrap alone. Those cracks and corrosion observed by CruisingDad? were likely the result of cold solder joints (improper/inadequate heating of BOTH the lug and the wire), which would then result in those cracks, which would then allow corrosion from inside the connection. But RF(radio frequency)/antenna connections should definitely be soldered, for example.

But I think one of the final points mentioned, that crimping is easier, is the real reason why nobody's been willing to discuss applications first, before declaring as Gospel that solder should never be used, only crimping.

By the way, someone (maybe as a joke?) asked what's a good soldering iron to use. I use a butane-refillable, variable-heat (10 to 60 watts) soldering iron that also has varous tips like a mini blowtorch tip that is excellent at shrinking shrinkwrap, and have even carried it with me up the mast in the bosun's chair, to repair my running light. Up there, corrosion and moisture are the biggest threats to a poor connection, not vibration, and micro-sealing those conductors in solder is a sure way to prevent moisture from getting into the connection and corroding it again, as long as adequate heat is applied to actually bond both conductors to the solder. Personally, I would not have confidence in a crimped connection up there....I'm sure I'd be repairing it again. But I will certainly stop soldering connections that will be subjected to severe engine vibration...

...and maybe go whole-hog and buy one of those outrageously expensive ratcheting crimpers.

By the way, speaking of going whole-hog/overboard...you guys that have been so strident in your ONLY CRIMP declarations have not taken into account that you are also talking about doing the perfect job, with the perfect tool, with the perfect materials.....like the $1 per lug, seamless, copper-lined stuff and the $50 crimpers. Come ON !!! Do you really think the majority will actually go out and look for and buy all that stuff.....like the expensive, adhesive-lined shrinkwrap...when we could just buy a $5 can of liquid insulation (and it DOES provide strain relief....but YES, it's VERY messy!)...or an assortment of non-adhesive shrinkwrap from Harbor Freight Tools.....

...maybe each skipper answering needs to declare first whether they read "Good Old Boat" or "Cruising World," so we know what kind of money your answers presuppose? (If you can't tell, I'm a "Good Old Boat" guy

Stenn on the Chesapeake

Last edited by Stenn; 07-14-2008 at 11:09 PM.
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  #110  
Old 07-15-2008
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Stenn,
gawd luv ya man...

The ABYC stds have been stated, and they're 'etched in country gravy' meaning they're bound to change when the next best thing comes along.

Your last couple of paragraphs however, show me you're a man after my own thought process. thank you.

The VAST majority of sailors on this board are never going to do a single handed circumnavagation of Cape Horn.

I'm all for doing things right once, but I'm not going to buy a 50.00 crimper and terminals with some alloy that can only be mined by Sherpas by hand in the Himalyas.
Gimme a pair of dikes and some glue lined heat shrink tubing anyday.
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