Crimping versus Soldering - Page 16 - SailNet Community
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post #151 of 286 Old 05-27-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
By the way, military specs for crimps are:
22 gauge..............15lbs
20 " ..............19lbs
18 " ..............38lbs
16 " ..............50lbs
14 " ..............70lbs
12 " ..............110lbs
10 " ..............150lbs

I wonder how many inexpertly done solder joints will meet these standards.
Brian
You mean like this one yellow heat shrink 10/12 butt splice holding all these anchors:



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post #152 of 286 Old 05-27-2009
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Maine Sail—

Some people "KNOW" their way is the only correct way, regardless of what the various people in various industries and the science behind the facts actually says.... and nothing you say or do can convince them otherwise.

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post #153 of 286 Old 05-27-2009
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Originally posted by "thekeip"
"...if a solder joint looks right, it probably is...Crimps give you no such visual clue"

I can't see inside either joint, but by cutting open a crimp you can see a solid mass of copper as a result of the cold forming that takes place with a proper crimp. All About Marine Wire Termination Photo Gallery by Maine Sailing at pbase.com
cut open crimps pic at bottom of page.

Originally posted by "thekiep"
"...each has its place. A connection that defies soldering can often be crimped satisfactorily...non tinned, oxidized wire comes to mind."

Why would you wire anything on a boat with non tinned already oxidized wire?
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post #154 of 286 Old 05-27-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Maine Sail—

Some people "KNOW" their way is the only correct way, regardless of what the various people in various industries and the science behind the facts actually says.... and nothing you say or do can convince them otherwise.
I'm not trying to convince those who would re-use already oxidized wire or those who already know all there is to know. I, as always, get concerned for the newbies to DIY who might take what ever they read at face value like "solder first then crimp" ...


P.S. Here is what a true cold formed crimp looks like INSIDE..

Before cutting it open

Cut Open (solid mass of cold formed copper):

I even polished it for the doubters:

Close up (sorry for the bad pics my flash and tripod are on the boat):


Sorry but there is NO water getting past this even before the adhesive heat shrink goes on....

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post #155 of 286 Old 05-27-2009
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Mitiemp...

Anyone who's soldered "radio connections" of any sort knows what is meant when "it looks right"...bright, shiny, and the solder permeated into the joint. You don't have to cut the joint apart to examine it.
You just can't look at a crimp and know if it's good or not.

I quite often run into conductors that need to be spliced or terminated...older RG-8, old non tinned multidstrand, or many applications where replacing a cable would be impractical, or where the conductor can't be replaced at all
Howard keiper
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If you're experienced at soldering you can probably tell when the connection is good - but the majority aren't that experienced. With a proper ratcheting crimper and the right connector you get a true cold weld inside as Mainesail's pics above show very well. Even for battery cables if you use the FTZ 94285 crimper you get a true cold weld in the lug. I just finished a set of battery cables in 2/0 and it worked like a charm.

I understand why you'd crimp when the conductor can't be replaced easily but I would crimp and heatshrink 100% of the time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post

I understand why you'd crimp when the conductor can't be replaced easily but I would crimp and heatshrink 100% of the time.
Brian
I agree with crimp/heat shrink. Even my non-critical wires, like my ST-60 wind, are done with adhesive lined heat shrink crimp connectors as well as the important stuff like mast light wiring..

The only stuff I solder on board is the center core conductor of my RG-8U to the PL-259 pin. The shield of the RG-8U is crimped then heat shrinked. The internal connection point, shown below, gets wrapped with self sealing tape once connected to the spar antenna wiring..

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post #158 of 286 Old 05-28-2009
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"Somebody want to tell NASA they are wrong"

Ha! You mean like when they mixed up meters and feet and flew the mars explorer into the ground? Ok, I will!

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PLease note, that failure was on the part of the eggheads not the technical team that made the spacecraft in question. The spacecraft in question didn't have any electrical failures... and most of the Mars Rover type craft have far exceeded their working lifespans... which is primarily attributable to the techniques used to make them.

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"Somebody want to tell NASA they are wrong"

Ha! You mean like when they mixed up meters and feet and flew the mars explorer into the ground? Ok, I will!

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e

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Copper is very soft and ductile so cutting through a crimped connection smears the metal and indeed makes it look like a "solid mass" of metal. A proper metallurgical inspection of a crimped connection involves slicing a section of the crimp with a microtome and looking at the surface with SEM. The interstitial spaces are always present, and can be very small, on the order of angstroms, but no amount of force can fuse copper wires into a solid mass. Unless you melt it, which I wouldn't recommend.

Crimping is a great mechanical connection, and a servicable electrical connection. Solder, especially modern, lead-free solders, are also very soft, and better yet, not prone to embrittlement. A proper solder joint fills interstitial spaces, and a proper crimped connector will deform the soldered wire and make an excellent connection.

I sometimes use solder joints and sometimes crimped connectors, and sometimes both.

I am simply putting in my 2cents worth of 30 years of electrical engineering, take it or leave it, as usual.

Oh, and how about the electrical failure that roasted 3 astronauts in the Apollo project?

...just because all the other kids jump off the Empire State Building doesn't mean I'm going to.

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