Crimping versus Soldering - Page 24 - SailNet Community

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  #231  
Old 06-16-2010
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LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!

ABYC standards do not allow a soldered connection unless it is also crimped.

Ulferlingsson
Your time would be better spent fixing your deck properly instead of worrying about soldering vs crimping.
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  #232  
Old 06-17-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!

ABYC standards do not allow a soldered connection unless it is also crimped.

Ulferlingsson
Your time would be better spent fixing your deck properly instead of worrying about soldering vs crimping.
Hahahah I don't worry one bit, I know perfectly well what I am doing, and as for that deck, the boat has a serious design flaw. Fixing it to as-new condition is just not good enough. ROFL
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  #233  
Old 08-17-2010
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Crimp 'em

Let the thread die? But I just got here, and this is one of the few things I know something about.

I was a marine electrician journeyman and foreman for 12 years at a Naval shipyard specializing in nuclear attack submarine overhauls. These boats are made as bulletproof as humanly possible with back ups to the backups.

We were constrained from soldering anything except for the gold pins and sockets in some of the older multipin connectors. We had to use un-insulated crimp connectors (never red, blue, or yellow insulated connectors) crimped with a Thomas and Betts 110 crimper, then shrink tube went over the crimp with the wire's ID on it. The Navy electrical design engineers decided thus for all the supporting reasons already pointed out here.

Roly
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  #234  
Old 08-26-2010
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I have some much cheaper alternatives that still offer the same longevity as the method recommended in this thread.

I use a very small bit of solder inside my crimp terminals (but not enough to run down and stiffen the wire). This offers the same benefit and longevity of tinned marine grade wire and connectors, but with much cheaper automotive grade components.

Also- if I'm out of adhesive lined heatshrink, or it's too expensive you can obtain the same benefit by thoroughly coating the terminal in dielectric grease or petroleum jelly before applying the heatshrink. This will displace any free volume inside the connector, and make it impossible for water or oxygen to intrude.

For those of us living inland it's impossible to purchase marine grade electronics on short notice, so improvisation is sometimes required. My connections done with regular auto parts store components have held up long-term in saltwater environments done this way.

Last edited by casioqv; 08-26-2010 at 09:11 PM.
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  #235  
Old 08-27-2010
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marine vs automotive electrical components

Cas,
I assume there is heat applied to the bit of solder in the crimp barrel?

Seems reasonable to me, like tinning the connector.

I have dunked wire ends into vaseline before putting on a crimp connector for a long time. I remembered this after I had already posted my comments. dielectric inside a piece of shrink is a good idea.

The fact that selling something as a "Marine" item adds 500% to it's price over "Standard" stuff, be it electrical or otherwise, makes creativity in "marineizing" stuff ones self cost effective. I used 2 ga.welding cable for distributing 12 volt power in my Albin Vega, between batteries, main switch, and distribution panels successfully for years. I tinned connecting ends, heat shrink sealed the insulation cuts, and applied dielectric grease to all the crimp terminals, and ran it all well above the bilge. Worked just fine, and cost many dollars less than fully tinned marine cable. Regular inspections and resistance checking showed up no deterioration in 10 years.

I once had to replace the power cable to a submersible pump in a sump at the bottom of the periscope well in a Sturgeon class submarine. It had been installed with non tinned wire, and the copper strands were corroded into black powder. I would not advise welding cable for this sort of application.

Regards, Roly
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  #236  
Old 08-27-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolyat View Post
Cas,
I assume there is heat applied to the bit of solder in the crimp barrel?
Yes, I'm talking about soldering the wire and terminal together after crimping. The solder has to enter from the terminal end and the amount of heat applied limited, to avoid having it wick down the wire and stiffening it, which will later cause the wire to break.

I'll also mention that I can't find any way to do this when splicing two wires together, as butt connectors are closed in the middle. I think it works fine to splice two wires by twisting them, and soldering- because a free hanging splice doesn't experience the same sort of cracking/bending torque that a flexible wire soldered to a fixed object does.

Perhaps another option would be to drill a small hole in the center of the butt connector and fill it in with solder. I haven't tried this yet.

Last edited by casioqv; 08-27-2010 at 02:59 AM.
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  #237  
Old 08-27-2010
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Originally Posted by casioqv View Post

I think it works fine to splice two wires by twisting them, and soldering- because a free hanging splice doesn't experience the same sort of cracking/bending torque that a flexible wire soldered to a fixed object does.
Why? Crimping is far more than adequate especially if you use factory made heat shrink crimps.. Also, twisting of wires together, even with solder, is not ABYC E-11 compliant. You don't need to wire to the standard but it is always a good idea especially if you ever go to sell or need an insurance survey. We have a couple of surveyors up this way who will flag solder only connections as "noted" items.
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  #238  
Old 08-27-2010
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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Why? Crimping is far more than adequate especially if you use factory made heat shrink crimps..
Because it offers equivalent longevity, at a much lower materials cost. Crimping is not adequate in a marine environment without tinned wire and marine grade terminals unless the connections are also soldered, and sealed.

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Also, twisting of wires together, even with solder, is not ABYC E-11 compliant.
That's probably an important point for people whose boats are worth more than the cost of a survey, but I'm not going to put $2000 worth of wiring into my $800 Catalina 22 when the method I described will last decades.
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  #239  
Old 08-27-2010
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I doubt you could put $2000 worth of wire in a Catalina 22. In Canada I pay $29 for 100' of tinned 14/2. That is at an industrial supplier that will sell to anyone with a $50 minimum. GenuineDealz in the US is higher but still not expensive. Genuinedealz > Marine Wire, Boat Wire, Boat Cable, Marine Grade
I can crimp a butt join with the proper connector and heat shrink it in about the time it takes for your soldering iron to get hot. And then I have a durable, waterproof, compliant connection.
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  #240  
Old 08-27-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I doubt you could put $2000 worth of wire in a Catalina 22.
Have you ever heard of West Marine? Just joking, but that's the only place to buy marine grade electronics around here, unless I plan far enough in advance and order online.

Plus- my boat was made with non-tinned wire ran through inaccessible spots and the entire harness is still good after 36 years. It still works great if I use solder inside the crimp terminals, but if I just crimp to them they'll stop conducting in less than a year.

//Edit: You make a good point though about how much quicker/easier pure crimping is. Although I use a heavy duty soldering iron with a large external power supply, and a digital thermostat- and it warms up almost instantly. My method is more work but it's much cheaper, and lasts as long as anything.

Last edited by casioqv; 08-27-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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