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  #81  
Old 02-16-2008
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stillraining,
There is a good amount of info in that thread by some knowledgable souls. Glad to hear that you survived your venture into Anarchy and that you got out of drilling and found a life. (g)
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  #82  
Old 02-19-2008
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Anyone try using dielectric paste on crimp on terminals? All of the wiring in my P323 is aftermarket, none of it marine grade. Rather than rewire, I thought I'd renew the connections, applying a light coating to the copper wire before crimping. I'll let you all know how it worked in a few years. By the way, I have and use both crimpers in my trade, but the ratcheting (or compound) crimper gives a far superior connection. I can pull apart most hand crimped connections with a couple of linesman's pliers, never been able to do it with a compound crimper.

Last edited by rkfitz; 02-25-2008 at 11:28 PM.
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  #83  
Old 02-19-2008
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"Anyone try using dialectric paste on crimp on terminals? "
Yup. SOP for me these days. I figure there's no way it can hurt and it ensures zero oxidation in there. Zero space for water. Gotta be better than a bare crimp. Just one thing: If you plan to use adhesive heat shrink OVER the crimp--you'd better go real sparingly on the paste.
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  #84  
Old 02-26-2008
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Soldered joints failing is always due to improper technique,

This is the way to do it right and make soldered joints last.
-Use a heat shrink so the solder and flux doesn't run up the wire (under the insulation
Use good quality solder (with flux inside)
after you solder the wire - wash off all the flux residue with alchohol - this is a critical step as water+flux=acid and will corrode the wire quickly if left on.
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Old 02-26-2008
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While this may be true, you still really shouldn't be soldering connections on a boat for many other reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chjensen View Post
Soldered joints failing is always due to improper technique,

This is the way to do it right and make soldered joints last.
-Use a heat shrink so the solder and flux doesn't run up the wire (under the insulation
Use good quality solder (with flux inside)
after you solder the wire - wash off all the flux residue with alchohol - this is a critical step as water+flux=acid and will corrode the wire quickly if left on.
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  #86  
Old 02-28-2008
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Crimping

I am a little late to this party but I have to agree with the proper crimping and heat shrink (versus solder, twisting, liquid tape) plus one more, I think important suggestion, related to the one response that I caught regarding the moisture point of entry where the heat shrink doesn't quite close up the gap between the spade (or loop), which is a very common problem. What I have done on well over hundreds of connections with no problems (15 years and counting) is to properly crimp, heat shrink, let cool and then spray Boshield T-9 (in an areosol can) in those small openings (hold the connection vertical and let the liquid migrate into the joint for a few seconds). It is a moisture displacement liquid that also leaves a light waxy film on crimp/wire that will last probably as long as I live (after that, who cares). I go one step further on the large battery connections (although no gaps with the heat shrink completely surrounding the lug and wire cover - may be overkill but maybe not - depends on the quality/integrity of the heat shrink) and spray both the lug and wire before crimping, wiping off any excess T-9 that finds its way onto the exterior of the wire or lug with acetone and then heat shrink (easier to wipe off on the large wires). The heat shrink provides the strength and the T-9, the all important moisture displacement.
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Old 02-29-2008
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Re: Crimping

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhedrick View Post
I think important suggestion, related to the one response that I caught regarding the moisture point of entry where the heat shrink doesn't quite close up the gap between the spade (or loop), which is a very common problem.
If you use a quality factory made heat shrink connector this will almost never happen. I've used perhaps thousands of these factory made heat shrink connectors at this point and I always inspect them after the termination is made and I've yet to see more than a very low percentage perhaps .2% had the gap or point of entry you describe.

The heat shrink material that comes on the factory made terminals is much thicker and far more robust than the adhesive lined heat shrink you can buy off the shelf.

Notice the glue oozing out of the ring end of that terminal.

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 03-04-2010 at 06:21 PM.
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  #88  
Old 02-29-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chjensen View Post
Soldered joints failing is always due to improper technique,

This is the way to do it right and make soldered joints last.
-Use a heat shrink so the solder and flux doesn't run up the wire (under the insulation
Use good quality solder (with flux inside)
after you solder the wire - wash off all the flux residue with alchohol - this is a critical step as water+flux=acid and will corrode the wire quickly if left on.
Traditional rosin fluxes are available in non-activated (R or NC), mildly activated (RMA) and activated (RA) strengths. RA and RMA fluxes can contain a rosin that's combined with a cleaning and activating agent, usually an acid, which increases the wettability of metals to which it is applied by removing or clearing the surface of existing oxides. The residue resulting from the use of an RA or a poorly made flux labeled as "RMA flux" is and can be corrosive and must be cleaned off the piece being soldered! This is nearly impossible with multi stranded tinned marine wire and this is why nearly all the soldered joints I've witnessed over the years are of poor quality! People use the WRONG flux or WRONG rosin cored solder!

Non-activated R or NC or a high quality RMA rosin core flux from a known and trusted manufacturer are the ONLY product that should be used in the marine environment!! There are many RMA fluxes out there that are NOT acid free...

It's your boat though so do as you wish...
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 02-29-2008 at 06:35 AM.
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  #89  
Old 02-29-2008
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halekai36

I totally agree with you that the factory installed heat shrink on a connector is basically fool proof. However, I have found the factory installed shrink is usually only readily available on certain size loop connectors, not all sizes. I have found it difficult to locate it for spade connectors (does it exist?) and in the smaller sizes. Therefore, the alternative method has been a very good option for me. I find the efficiency of time in buying a stock of various size connectors and appropriate heat shrink at your local marine store and using the T-9 (or alternative) fills the bill.

I originally used all loop connectors (you know, the mantra, they will never "fall off"), but the extreme gymnastics of big hands, limited space, small screws/connectors with the accompanying frustration and time to completely remove a fastener on a hard-to-reach terminal block, putting the screw through the loop and getting that tiny screw to take is just too much (I'd probably still be in the boat yard). Unless you have noticeable or extreme vibration, which is not common on sail boats, or on large wire connections that use lugs, the spade is the way to go - loosen the screw, slip on the spade and tighten. One thing I didn't previously mention, once the completed connection screw is tightened, I again spray the entire assembly with T-9. Done. I look at some of the work I did years ago and it looks like I did it last week. Your choice.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhedrick View Post
However, I have found the factory installed shrink is usually only readily available on certain size loop connectors, not all sizes. I have found it difficult to locate it for spade connectors (does it exist?) and in the smaller sizes.
Unless you have noticeable or extreme vibration, which is not common on sail boats, or on large wire connections that use lugs, the spade is the way to go - loosen the screw, slip on the spade and tighten.
Yes large rings and spades are available in factory made heat shrink. However, you will most likely only ever find "safety spades" or "captive fork spades". Safety spades are written into the ABYC standard as the ONLY acceptable spade connection. Straight spades, the ones without the bent up safety tips, should be avoided on boats!

Ancor is NOT the only manufacturer of good quality heat shrink connectors. I buy from AMP, FTZ, 3M and Ancor and I've never not been able to find the terminal I needed..

ABYC, Nigel Calder, Don Casey, USCG and other industry insiders and experts would all disagree with you about sailboats NOT having vibration issues. Perhaps, if you feel that sailboats don't exhibit vibration, you have not spent enough time, off shore, in rough weather. I can assure you that when your boat literally falls off the face of a wave that there is CONSIDERABLE vibration and strain to every component on the boat including cabinetry, wiring, tankage, engine, rig, plumbing and more. Vibration is one of the main reasons the ABYC and other experts, in the industry, suggest "safety spades" , "strain relief" & a "mechanical connection" other than solder alone among other safety precautions......

Some Nigel quotes:

"Cables in boat use are subject to vibration and, at times, considerable shocks. Solid-cored cable of the kind used in household wiring is liable to fracture. Stranded cable must be used on boats."

and

"Cables need: strength to resist the vibration and pounding experienced in boats, adequate insulation to prevent ground leaks, and sufficient size to minimize voltage drop."
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 02-29-2008 at 04:02 PM.
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