SailNet Community

SailNet Community (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/)
-   Gear & Maintenance (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/)
-   -   Pacific Seacraft 34 (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/40837-pacific-seacraft-34-a.html)

ljbabin 02-23-2008 09:16 PM

Pacific Seacraft 34
 
Hello members,

I'm a new member and I need some input regarding shaft removal on my PSC 34. Will the shaft come out of the boat past the rudder or do you have to drop the rudder? Has anybody had any experience with this?
Love reading the forums; lots of interesting information.

Thanks, Les

billyruffn 02-24-2008 12:04 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I have admired that boat for years, but have never had the chance to take a close look at the rudder. From the diagram below my guess is that the only chance you have for not removing the rudder is if WEB Crealock designed the rudder with a hole in it for shaft removal. On some boats there's a tube built into the rudder located so that when the rudder is hard over one direction or the other the shaft will come out through the tube. In normal operating mode, the tube is covered / faired with a filler of some sort so it doesn't disrupt the flow over the rudder.

Is the boat out of the water now, so you could look at the rudder?

ljbabin 02-24-2008 12:11 PM

PCS Cutlass Bearing
 
Hello BillyRuffn, wellas you can see by the diagram the S.S. tube that is the backbone of the rudder is olny under the surface of the fibberglass,but I decided to try digging it out just in case,NO LUCK but thanks for offering me another possibility.At this point I have the 3bladed Max Prop off,the coupling half at the trans. off and the entire packing nut and stuffing box removed and I am in the process of unbolting the transmission mounts then I can chainfall the motor up high enough to slide the shaft under the motor enough to give me room to remove the cutlass bearing.I have replaced at least 5-6 bearings in my time but never like this.I can,t get the shaft out without motor removal which seems strange with a boat that seems to have so much quality and thought put in it.Again ,thanks for the input,guess I will continue along the way I am going for now.LES

billyruffn 02-24-2008 02:56 PM

How hard would it be to drop the rudder out? You'll have to remove the steering cables and the quadrant, and pull off the gudgeon, but that seems easier than moving the engine. It's probably not a bad idea to pull the rudder out once a decade just to see what's going on with the quadrant, rudder bearings, and check the rudder stock for wear. I just did -- we had a rough time getting one of the quadrants off the shaft, but after that it was relatively easy. I have a spade rudder so no issue w/ a gudgeon. In all it took about six hours. You have two options for getting the stock clear of the lower bearing: pay for a round trip on the travellift, or dig a hole. I pulled my rudder out the day we lifted the boat for winter storage and we'll put the rudder back when it's lifted just before launching.

Re. your Max Prop -- I had enough hours on mine to warrant sending it back to PYI for reconditioning. They checked out the internal mechanicals, replaced what was worn, cleaned up the blade edges and rebalanced the blades, and then polished it to the point where it looks like a jewel. The bill came was around $300.

Another thought -- I had a mechanic aboard once and I told him the story of all we'd gone through the first time we'd replaced the cutlass bearing -- It cost a fortune because I didn't anticipate the need to pull the rudder when we hauled for the winter and the yard wouldn't let us dig a hole so we had two RTs with the travellift to get the rudder out and then back in --- Well, anyway, the mechanic told me he had a way to get the bearing out without removing the rudder. He said he used a series of short sections of steel pipe the OD and ID of which enabled the pipe to fit over the shaft and inside the stern tube. His process involved building up a series of these tubes around the shaft until he cleared the stern tube. He'd run the steel tubes into the stern tube so that the first one in is resting on the inboard end of the cutlass bearing and the last one clears the end of the shaft inside the boat. He then used a hydraulic ? -- not sure what you'd call it -- a set of two small hydraulic pistons rigged in such a way that the pistons, in contact either side of the steel pipes around the shaft, could press the cutlass bearing out of the boat (with the prop off, of course). I've not seen this procedure done, and don't know if it's in common use or if it's a procedure this mechanic invented, but he claimed it works. You might ask around with mechanics in your area to see if anyone has ever done it.

Good luck!

JohnRPollard 02-25-2008 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljbabin (Post 271155)
Hello BillyRuffn, wellas you can see by the diagram the S.S. tube that is the backbone of the rudder is olny under the surface of the fibberglass,but I decided to try digging it out just in case,NO LUCK but thanks for offering me another possibility.At this point I have the 3bladed Max Prop off,the coupling half at the trans. off and the entire packing nut and stuffing box removed and I am in the process of unbolting the transmission mounts then I can chainfall the motor up high enough to slide the shaft under the motor enough to give me room to remove the cutlass bearing.I have replaced at least 5-6 bearings in my time but never like this.I can,t get the shaft out without motor removal which seems strange with a boat that seems to have so much quality and thought put in it.Again ,thanks for the input,guess I will continue along the way I am going for now.LES

Les,

It sounds to me like all you're trying to accomplish is the removal/replacement of the cutlass bearing? If so, it is not necessary to pull the shaft to replace it.

But even if you do need to remove the shaft for some reason, I would suggest that you post your question, as well as the description of what you have done so far, over on the SailNet Pacific Seacraft e-mail list-serve. There are folks there who have done both jobs and can give you the advice you need. Suggest you also do a search of the archives, as the process for replacing the cutlass bearing has been described previously. Link below:

http://list.sailnet.net/read/?forum=pacificseacraft

Rockter 02-25-2008 11:23 AM

What a marvellous bit of maintainence forethought by those thoughtful folks at Pacific Seacraft.
I wonder where else in the design have they similarly thoughtful?

Engine out to change the propshaft?
Keep the water out to make it float?

JohnRPollard 02-25-2008 12:27 PM

I just wanted to follow-up so nobody reading this thread gets the wrong impression.

I am sorry that he has gone to so many unnecessary difficulties, but it is not necessary to do what Les undertook to change the cutless bearing. Many owners simply pull the bearing by removing the prop and following a relatively simple procedure. See instructions quoted below.

Also, as to the suggestion that one must pull the engine to replace the prop shaft: There is no notch in the rudder so it is easier but not absolutely necessary to drop the rudder when replacing the shaft. However, it MOST DEFINITELY IS NOT necessary to pull the engine to remove the shaft.

From Dave Pomerantz, a long-time PSC 34 owner, posted to SailNet's PSC list-serve:
Quote:

I have a 34, so I don't know if this method will work exactly the same for [your PSC37]. I had a boatyard replace the bearing in 1998 and replaced it myself in 2005. Removing the bearing was a little tricky because the dimple caused by the set screws can deform the bearing inside the shaft
tube. An alternative, which someone on this list suggested, was to
drill and tap the bearing for a 1/4-20 screw. That holds the bearing
securely without deformation, making it a cinch to remove in the
future. The whole procedure is a little tricky, but the result is
worthwhile and you know the cutlass bearing will never slip and spin
with the shaft, which can be bad news.

Here's my anal-compulsive instructions that I wrote a couple years ago:


Removing Bearing

• Gearbox in neutral

• Get a prop puller and remove the prop

• Remove bearing set screws

• Take two 3/4” nuts and thread them onto the prop shaft and lock them
together. Put a wrench on one of them, preferably a vise grip. This
allows you to turn or hold the shaft

• Grip the exposed edge of the bearing with a large vise grip and
rotate it on the shaft, while keeping the shaft from turning.

• Once the bearing rotates, work it off the shaft by rotating and
pulling. Note: if you always replace the cutlass bearing yourself using
the installation procedure described below, you’ll be assured of an easy
replacement the next time. That’s the best reason for not letting a
boatyard do the work.


Installing New Bearing


Parts

Trellex-Morse shaft bearing, Bloater model (4” x 1” I.D. x 1-3/8” O.D.)

Two 1/4-20 oval head stainless steel machine screws, 1-1/4” long. These
are a perfect fit.


Procedure

• Apply waterproof marine grease to the shaft at the hull

• Slide the new bearing onto the shaft and CAREFULLY push it into the
shaft tube until there is NO LESS than 1/4” of the bearing exposed.
Push it in too far and you won’t get it out again and may have to drop
the rudder and pull the shaft. So _don’t push it too far._

• Rotate the bearing on the shaft until the flats of the rubber are
under the set screw holes.

• Mark two lines on either side of the exposed bearing surface to
indicate the rotational angle. Label the lines P and S so you don’t put
the bearing back at 180 degrees out of phase.

• Mark a circumference line to indicate how far the bearing is in.

• Using the drill bit for a 1/4-20 tap, drill through the bearing at
each set screw. Try not to score the shaft. Try not to damage the
threads in the hull for the screws.

• Remove the bearing. Finish drilling. Tap for 1/4-20 threads. Try
out the new set screws.

• Replace the bearing, using the lines to position it.

• With a tiny screwdriver inserted in the set screw holes, find the
corresponding holes in the bearing. A very bright flashlight helps.

• Engage both screws. This may take some time and patience.

• Remove screws one at a time, load with loctite, and replace.

• Make sure the shaft turns freely, that the screws don’t bear on the
shaft.

• You now have a perfect installation that will never come loose until
you want it to and will then come out easily. Much better than a
boatyard job.

billyruffn 02-25-2008 12:27 PM

I had a look at the PSC site referenced above in JohnRPollard's post and found the technique I had tried to describe earlier. Looks like you don't have to move the engine.

Here's the technique followed by a PS 37 owner:

After a month of shore leave, we got back to the boat
on Jan 2 and started work. I had asked this board for
information on the cutless bearing on PS 37's and
received many great replies. When it came time to
remove the old bearing, I tried a technique that I
developed to avoid dropping the rudder and pulling the
prop shaft. It worked! It depends on having sleeves
that will slide on the shaft and inside the stern
tube. PS 37's have a 1" diameter shaft and a 1 3/8" ID
stern tube. 1", schedule 40 pipe has a 1.315" OD and a
1.037" ID, so it fit's the bill.

Sequentially:

Remove the prop
Remove two set screws holding cutless bearing
Remove the coupling from the shaft
Remove the packing gland
Cut about thirty 1" long pieces of 1", schedule 40,
PVC pipe
Slide PVC sleeves on prop shaft until a less than 1"
gap between last sleeve and motor half of coupling.
Use wedges between last PVC sleeve and motor half of
coupling to push sleeves against end of cutless
bearing
Like magic, the cutless bearing came out of the hole!

Roland PS 37 #347

JohnRPollard 02-25-2008 12:30 PM

BillyR,

Yes, in unusually stubborn cases it sometimes is necessary to tap the bearing out from the inside out with the method you quoted above. Others have reported good results with the simpler exterior extraction method described by Dave Pomerantz.

Sapperwhite 02-25-2008 12:42 PM

I dropped my rudder when I changed out my cutlass bearing, but I had the prop shaft checked and straightened, and had the prop cleaned at the same time. I also had a small void in the rudder that had to be ground out and filled, so it was easier to drop the rudder.

All you have to do is unbolt the steering quadrant from the rudder stock, and unbolt the rudder heel. It was easy.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012