Design mah traveler

[bobmcgov]

The boat: 1973 San Juan 21.
The place: Wyoming, God's own wind tunnel
The challenge: adding a traveler to a cheap little boat

First of all, is it worth doing? Here's the current mainsheet system:



Negatives include heeling and control lines cutting thru the cockpit on downwind legs and jibes. Positives include it's free and simple and ready to sail.

Here's Traveler Option 1 -- Mid cockpit:





Negatives are shin banging and control lines in the cockpit. Positives are sheet controls low and in front hand; short (20") span between seats.


Traveler Option 2 -- Aft bridge:





Negatives are long unsupported span (50") and high, wrong-hand sheeting. Positives are boom-end sheeting and all lines away from passengers & crew.

Well?

[Faster]

Nice mock-ups Bob!

Another neg on traveller opt 2 is the loss of the ability to lift the tiller... this is important for cockpit space at the dock/on the hook, and it's nice to be able to lift it during tacks with a crowded cockpit, or when steering standing up, esp when docking. Also mainsheet AND control lines are "wrong handed".

Other than the shin banging, opt #1 will give you the easiest-to-use-effectively setup IMO. You'll quickly get used to stepping over it, it also nicely separates the helmsman from the trimmers and gives you your own space. (but move it ahead a bit to avoid the mainsheet and tiller overlap)

[CharlieCobra]

I went with option #3 m'self. I used the Harkin small boat setup next to the Laz with end boom sheeting. It ends up being about 18" from the end of the seat which allows the trimmer to sit behind me, out of the way. I still can lift the tiller and have to when tacking or gybing but it's a quick, easy to get used to motion. This was on a Venture 21 with a similar triangle setup as your SJ21. Boy did it make a huge difference in sail control.

[sailingfool]

I would agree with faster that Opt 1 would be better, with the traveller another 18"-24" forward. You would need to spread the sheet load on the mid-boom or you will quickly break it, you can try two single blocks on straps spread 18", good chance you'll break the boom anyway.

I would suggest you try a simplier solution such a Mann traveller documented at http://www.sanjuan21.net/. In fact that site has quite a few alternatives for the 21 see http://www.sj21fleet1.org/?Rigging_I...p%3B:Travelers

[Hartley18]

Bob, your mock-ups truly are impressive!!

We've got Option #1 on our boat and just finished a long discussion here on how best to rig the blocks..

As SF pointed out, the traveller needs to be either 18" further forward so you can squeeze past the end of the tiller whilst tacking (don't say you won't want to!). You could try to mount a ratchet block on the floor (you've got more room than I have) but you'll probably find that the angles are wrong, so stick with what you've shown.

Another downside for Option #2: It has to be a strong enough set-up to cope with someone clambering over it at high speed trying to free a stern line heading for the propellor.. been there and broke that (on someone else's Hartley) ..a difficult thing to do whilst still keeping the boat "looking nice".

If you go with #1, a suggestion: Use a "continuous loop" rather than separate traveller control lines. I can post more details if you like.

[bobmcgov]

SF: The trouble with rope/ring travelers, which the Seattle crowd prefers (insofar as they use travelers at all), is that they are basically equivalent to the stock sheeting system -- they still form a triangle and thus cancel most of a traveler's high-wind benefits. Plus they seem like a bugger to fuss with versus a car-on-track: have to keep both control lines banjo-tight. The traveler just in front of the tiller (which I could shorten 6") places the top block attachment point about 18" from the end of a 10' boom. Not great, but not too bad. I've asked this question on the SJ21 site, but it averages about two posts a week and is badly administered. Smell of a dying class.

Charlie: Did you have a flat surface to mount the track on, or did you need to span a vast space?

Faster: I could always hinge the tiller just ahead of the track -- or (gulp) notch the transom, lower the tiller and pintles into this notch, and drop the traveller accordingly.

[Faster]

Originally Posted by bobmcgov

Faster: I could always hinge the tiller just ahead of the track ...

Yes, you could, but to my mind you are weakening the tiller, and the mods required to make it sufficiently strong would be unsightly. It's a nice looking piece of wood now.

Originally Posted by bobmcgov

...or (gulp) notch the transom, lower the tiller and pintles into this notch, and drop the traveller accordingly.

Gulp! indeed. More work and bother than this problem deserves, since there are other viable options.

A thought: a tad cumbersome, but keeping your cockpit open and utilizing existing hardware (and saving a bit of cash) would be going to twin sheets to each corner. Doesn't solve the 'wrong handed'ness issue (but you could mount them "upside down" and run the tails along the boom and cleat them there in front of you). What you do get is the same control that a decent traveller will give you, but nowhere near as convenient.... personally I'd prefer a real (good) traveller set up. But I've seen this in action and it can work.

[Hartley18]

Originally Posted by bobmcgov

Faster: I could always hinge the tiller just ahead of the track -- or (gulp) notch the transom, lower the tiller and pintles into this notch, and drop the traveller accordingly.

Bob, if you're even *thinking* about this, have a read of this thread first:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/37348-tiller-too-long.html

[sailingdog]

Bob-

I can sympathize with you, since the tiller on my boat is also set just forward of the curved mainsheet traveller track. I've been trying to think of a way to upgrade it from a pin-stop traveller to a line-controlled traveler, without much success, since it would leave me with essentially your option number 2.

I think you should go with option number one... talk to garhauer marine, as they make a very nice traveller setup that can span even fairly large distances like what you'll have... and that you should spread the load out over two or three blocks set on the boom, over about two or three feet of length. The reason I'm recommending you might want to go up to three blocks is that you're losing some leverage by going up to mid-boom sheeting.

[blt2ski]

How about option 4, Ie just behind the cabin say 6" or so. Yeah farther forward, but you can control the line traveller along with main sheet easy enough too. That is were mine is at on my rig. I also know of a fellow at my marina that took a Cal T2's traveller off the cabin, and put it there.

Also, harken has a metal track that will span about 4-5' IIRC. 1616 is the low hight track, and 1618 is the high track that will cross spans in mid length boat equipment, pg 125 of the 07-08 catalog!

Marty