The mystery of the Marine Environment - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 32 Old 03-14-2008
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #12 of 32 Old 03-14-2008
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Chuckles, I think you've discovered the same business model motif as exemplified in generic brand goods. Many name brand companies will take their full price marketable goods and lower the price, change the label and sell it as a generic version. It's my belief many marine grade goods are like this in reverse. Take a normal item and slap a marine rating on it and charge out the nose for it. Maybe there are slight differences, maybe not. There are two reasons why this business model exists: there is a market for it, and if they didn't do it someone else would. Consumer beware.


who is staring at the sea is already sailing a little
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post #13 of 32 Old 03-14-2008
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Its all in the wrist

We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs
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post #14 of 32 Old 03-14-2008
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Chuck....

I too live just a few steps from the ocean and I can assure you that my stuff here, even in the house or barn, takes a beating!!! My tools in my work shop/barn will rust if I don't coat them after each use, our cars rust, and everything including my lawn mower shows far more rust and corrosion than it did when I lived inland. We even had to convert to vinyl clad windows (yuck) with cedar shakes because our pine clapboards would not hold up to the environment the way traditional white cedar does (no way was I doing vinyl siding in coastal Maine)!

One of the main differences between a house and a boat is that a boat does NOT breathe like a house does. Houses are made of wood and have heating (drying) and cooling (drying) systems to keep mold and moisture at bay. My house never goes much above 50% relative humidity inside, I don't let it, but my boat is usually at 80% or higher and it's only 100 yards away! The pages of books in my house don't get musty like they do on the boat and magazines don't curl up either. Perhaps that 30+% difference is the culprit.. There really is a difference between in the water and close to the water....

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-Maine Sail / CS-36T


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Last edited by Maine Sail; 03-14-2008 at 05:45 PM.
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post #15 of 32 Old 03-14-2008 Thread Starter
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Haleki,
I've lived on ships at sea for 16 years. Didn't notice a difference then - in fact seems to me that the Navy cared squat for marinized tools, electronics, heck - anything at all. They bought stuff (including computers) right off the same shelf joe homeowner does.

We all choose our own way. I choose normal prices for normal life expectancy. Anybody here own a TV more than 15 years old? The little 3 inch TV and 8mm player unit I bought in 1990 from Radio Shack is still working fine - and it's lived on boats most of it's life.
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post #16 of 32 Old 03-15-2008
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Chuck,
Don't bring up the fact that the maritime industry and the Navy utilize hardly any stainless steel and wire their ships with non-tinned electrical wire. Heck, I've been on ships without GPS units let alone chart-plotters. How they continue to anchor without the Rocna is an international scandal that merits a UN investigation.

On a bit more serious note, as Bill Trayfors alludes to, regardless of salinity the humidity, which is generally a function of temperature, is a very large factor in the degradation of metals and other things. Any first year cadet who's polished his brass belt buckle knows that it needs daily attention in the summer and maybe only weekly in the winter.

“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.”
Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
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post #17 of 32 Old 03-15-2008
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When I built my shop

I trucked in structural fill about 18" worth...and is so doing thinking I didnt need a vapor barrier...big mistake... and it has haunted me now for 10 years... The moisture that the concrete wicks from the ground draws with it the calcium in the concrete ( Salt ) what ever I mettle leave sitting on the floor for any length of time corrodes...it actually ruined an Aluminum Hover vacuum cleaner after setting in the corner three years..

A beter example is one of rigging...a boat in the Bahamas will need probably 3 to 1 rigging changes compared to a lake sailor in Ohio..Humidity and salt will be the reason.

I dont think you can compare a navy ship with any of our boats... the size of ventilation and other air handeling equipment is much greater and even sitting 30' above the water will make a differance in moisture ...

No question cabin gear can be Home Depo...better go to Defender for deck or bilge Hardware...
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post #18 of 32 Old 03-15-2008
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Stillraining has never enjoyed sailing in a T-2 tanker where the air-handling equipment consists of an open port hole. (g)

“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.”
Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
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post #19 of 32 Old 03-15-2008
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Nope!

cant say I have Sway...Biggest boat I have been on was the Princess Margarete that went from Seattle to Victoria BC...and our 300' Washington state ferries...Now there is some ventilation for ya...one big air tunnel...
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post #20 of 32 Old 03-15-2008
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For those of us lucky enough to sail newish boats, maybe the mutli hull owners who claim to stay level at all times and for those who never really venture to sea or have never sailed in really tough conditions, non-marinised stuff is probably OK.

My boats because of my budgets have always been older with imperfect deck seals and hatches that leak ever so slightly when green waves pass over the deck. The result is that all the gear down below is subjected to salt in way bigger concentrations than a boat that languishes for the most part in a marina.

I have had my cockpit filled to the brim with waves several times and 20 gallons of salt water leaks in past the joints and gaps in the wash boards. It either ends up in the galley or on the chart table. I shudder to think what my stove and radios would look like now if they came from Walmart.

I have thrown away huge amounts of stuff that we bought on the cheap rather than pay the apparently extortionate prices asked for "marine grade" stuff. And still, there are many items that we use at sea even though the life is dramatically reduced but then it's about economies of scale. A bicycle for example in stainless is prohibitive, the supermarket model will last 2 years then it gets chucked and another one is bought for next to nothing.

I find it interesting that some of the folks above who decry marinised products are the same ones who earlier vehemently insisted that they will only ever use tinned wire and crimped joints and all that other stuff. You don't have tinned wire in your car or your home.

I can't imagine going to sea with a Coleman stove in place of my Force 10. And I reckon we won't see to many of the above boat owners fitting mild steel barbeques on the back rail

Don't misunderstand me, I get really ratty as well when I get stung with huge prices but there are some marinised products that are not negotiable.

FWIW
Andre
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