SSB radios - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #21  
Old 03-15-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,810
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 10
btrayfors will become famous soon enough btrayfors will become famous soon enough
Dan,

Satphones cannot and will not ever replace SSB. It's not a question of technology, i.e., reliability or cost or coverage or access to the Internet. It's a question of typology.

Satphones are point-to-point. They connect you with ONE OTHER point.

Radios are point-to-multiple point. There are over 1,000,000 licensed hams in the world and they are located all over the world. When you pick up the mic on a ham radio, you have the potential of talking to, and/or being heard or overheard by many, many stations. Ditto for marine SSB, though the community is much smaller.

You have only to do some active cruising with a SSB or a ham radio to know. Or, if you're landbound, listen into the marine SSB and the ham SSB nets: the Waterway Net on 7268LSB daily at 0745 EDT; the Cruisheimer's Net daily on 6227USB at 0830EDT; the Maritime Mobile Net daily on 14300USB noon to 9PM; etc., etc.

On these nets, boats check in to report their positions; learn where other boats are; hook up with them; obtain the latest weather reports; obtain help when they are in difficulty; talk to the Coast Guard in real emergencies (yes, the Coast Guard comes up on the ham nets); check propagation; get info on just about anything imaginable; etc., etc.

On a given day, some 50 or so cruising boats will check in on Cruiseheimers'; about 20 or more will check in on the Waterway Net; many others will check in on the MM Net, the Hurricane Net, the Safety and Security Net in the Caribbean, the NW Caribbean Net, the Pacific Seafarers Net, the Southeast Asian Net, and many, many others.

You can't do any of this with a satphone.

And, despite advances in technology, you never will be able to.

Bill

Last edited by btrayfors; 03-15-2008 at 08:28 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 03-15-2008
Sapperwhite's Avatar
Not So Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,504
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about
So, I can transmit from a marine SSB transceiver on ham bands if I have the proper class ham license? That is, if the radio can operate on ham bands (and I already have my ships station license, and the SSB operator's license), can I also have a ham license (proper class for said ham band) and use the SSB rig on those ham bands it can pick up?

Is a good marine SSB type accepted for ham use also is what I'm getting at (provided you are ham licensed)

Thanks in advance btrayfors, I'm sure you've said it a thousand times already
__________________
Dictated, but not read.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 03-15-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Sapper-

I don't believe the FCC requires Ham Radio gear to be Type Accepted like the Marine SSB does, since Ham radio operator's often build their own equipment. Bill will correct me if I'm wrong.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 03-15-2008
danielgoldberg's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 679
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 7
danielgoldberg is on a distinguished road
btrayfors, I take your points, and I didn't mean to sugges that SSB's all will get thrown in the garbage within the next 6 months are anything like that. But, whereas historically an SSB has been pretty much required gear for bluewater trips or long distance cruising, I believe that will change.

Every single thing you mentioned in fact can be done via satphone and/or the Internet. You say that 50 to 100 cruisers check in on netsn every day; I'm sure you're right. But that exact same thing can be done via an Internet board. Right this very moment cruisers can use a satellite tracking device so that their positions are tracked on the Internet, updated hourly (check out www.iboattrack.com). That kind of thing will become more prevalent, and when it does the need to check in with SSB nets will be diminshed, if not eliminated. Same holds true for weather routing and anything else that you can think of for which you would need an SSB net.

Likewise, there are party lines for phones, conference call capabilities, IM, chat rooms for real time multi-party discussions, and the list goes on and on. While SSB's remain incredibly useful today, I believe that really will change. There is a social aspect of cruisers' nets right now, but that really can be replicated with phone calls. It may even get more social with conference videocalls via Skype or another provider.

I'm really not kidding. Just a few short years ago the only way to coordinate with friends, clubs, events, etc. on the water was to schedule times to connect via VHF. Now, you hardly ever use the VHF; you just flip open your cell phone. That's exactly the same situation that you have on the high seas now with SSB, and that's only because satphone technology and cost (and they go hand in hand) just haven't gotten there yet.

Again, I mean no disrespect, and we're all just prognosticating here so who knows what the future will hold, but I think the SSB radio has seen its xenith and is on the backside of its useful lifespan as a technology.
__________________
Dan Goldberg

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 03-15-2008
Sapperwhite's Avatar
Not So Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,504
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Sapper-

I don't believe the FCC requires Ham Radio gear to be Type Accepted like the Marine SSB does, since Ham radio operator's often build their own equipment. Bill will correct me if I'm wrong.
I got that from earlier. I'm asking if you can use a marine SSB rig to transmit on the ham nets that the marine ssb rig can pick up, provided you are fully licensed to do so (holding ship station, marine ssb, and proper class level ham license).

If yes, do you use your ham call sign when on the ham bands, but using the marine SSB rig? (that could get confusing)
__________________
Dictated, but not read.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 03-15-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,810
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 10
btrayfors will become famous soon enough btrayfors will become famous soon enough
Sapperwhite,

Yes. You can use the marine rig on the ham bands, if you have a ham license.

Most marine rigs -- in fact, all of them that I know about -- are capable of operating on the ham bands as well as the marine bands, though some may require special "programming".

The problem is, most marine SSBs although capable of operating on the ham bands are not very convenient. They don't have the frequency agility of ham rigs, with a few exceptions. The Icom 802 which is often advertised as being capable of both marine and ham operation indeed has a VFO which allows you to tune the bands, but it has detents and the architecture of the radio just isn't very intuitive to my mind. Many folks find it OK, though. It's probably what you're used to.

I routinely use an older marine SSB on the ham bands...a little-known Kenwood TKM-707. Great little rig. And, I choose to do so despite having at any time more than 20 other options: ham rigs, marine rigs, commercial rigs, and military rigs! I just love the 707.


On my boat, I have another little-know marine SSB: the Yaesu FT-600 alongside my Yaesu FT-900AT ham rig. It's also a fine little rig. See pic here: Gallery :: Miscellaneous 2007 :: NavStn_0140

Bill

Last edited by btrayfors; 03-15-2008 at 08:59 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 03-15-2008
Sapperwhite's Avatar
Not So Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,504
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about Sapperwhite has a spectacular aura about
Thanks Bill, just what I needed to know.

One other thing, I have limited space and can't have both rigs aboard. Say I get an Icom 802 and learn to live with its function on ham bands. I would have to use my ham call sign while on those ham bands correct?
__________________
Dictated, but not read.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 03-15-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,810
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 10
btrayfors will become famous soon enough btrayfors will become famous soon enough
Yes, that's correct.

While it does seem a bit complicated in the beginning, think of it this way.

A marine license allows you to transmit on the marine bands only.

A ham license allows you to transmit on the ham bands only.

You can listen anywhere.

You can use any radio on the ham bands.

On the marine bands, you can only legally use a radio which has been type-accepted for use on the marine bands.

In an extreme emergency, you can use any radio on any band to attract attention and get needed help.

Many sailors routinely use ham radios on the marine bands (illegally). They may or may not get away with it over time.

Bill
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 03-15-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,810
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 10
btrayfors will become famous soon enough btrayfors will become famous soon enough
Daniel,

I take your points, but find it just a little sad.

I guess it boils down to whether or not you believe that texting via the Internet is somehow better or more desirable or more fun than actually communicating directly with someone.

Maybe it's a generational thing. Hmmm....would I rather talk to someone in the flesh or on the phone, or should I just text him/her? Damn...my thumbs are getting sore, guess I'll have to resort to the old technology and make a call :-)

NB: not every vessel afloat has a computer. Or a text screen. Or connection to the Internet. Or, thank god, wants to.

But almost all have a VHF. And, long-distance cruisers have a SSB which they can switch on in the morning and listen to while they're making breakfast, fixing a piece of broken gear, herding the kids, looking over new charts, or eating some papaya with lime juice. Try that while you're glued to the keyboard :-)

Bill
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 03-15-2008
Plumper's Avatar
Sailor
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 845
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Plumper is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielgoldberg View Post
Another comparison to make too is VHF and cell phones. VHF still is used, but it's used a whole lot less because of cell phones. Indeed, radio the coast guard today, and the first question you get is whether you have a cell phone on board that can be used to call them or they you. That tells the whole story right there.
This assumption is incorrect. The reason the Coast Guard pushes most non life threatening emergencies (in cell areas) over to a cell phone is to keep the radio frequencies clear for the critical emergencies. You are also being very myopic in your view. There is more to the world than US coastal waters and cell phones. In most of the world, dialing 911 on a sat phone won't get you jack.
__________________
There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar IV, iii, 217
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Seamanship Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Her Sailnet Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
Marine Radios Overview Jim Sexton Seamanship Articles 0 09-30-1999 08:00 PM
Marine Radios Overview Jim Sexton Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 09-30-1999 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:06 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.