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bmcald 05-23-2002 04:00 AM

Loose screws
 
The screws holding a cabin door hinge and a cockpit hatch cover are loose, and I wanted some opinions on the best way to fix them. They were screwed through the gelcoat and fiberglass. Their holes have gotten too large, probably through constant working. Should I use a filler? What kind? Or would the plastic anchors used with screws in plaster work?

DuaneIsing 05-23-2002 05:07 AM

Loose screws
 
I usually try to avoid threading anything directly into GRP. If the situation permits, I try to use through-bolts (actually machine screws) with appropriate washers and nuts (and maybe even a backing plate).

Denr 05-23-2002 05:12 AM

Loose screws
 
This is a common problem with many production boats (you know which ones I''m referring to) that is to say, using self tapping screws rather than machine screws and nuts. If access is available on the opposite side of the fiberglass, I would substitute the existing fasteners for a screw, nylock nut and washer. Filler in the holes will not produce favorable results as the same thing will happen repeatedly. Self-tapping fasteners are a cheap and dirty way to put things together. This is the essence of "Value Pricing" everyone likes to talk about.

tsenator 05-23-2002 08:24 AM

Loose screws
 
bmcald,

Cabin door hinge?.. Doesn''t your boat have hatch boards, or is this an internal door? I am not really sure I can picture where the problems exists. What kind of boat is this? (a daysailer?) what year? (is it quite a few years old?) Is there alot of torsional loading on these spots. I agree that the best thing if possible is drilling all the way through and bolting. But I bet that is not possible. You could try enlarging the hole a bit and filling with an epoxy filler that does not get too brittle, but has a little "rubberiness" to it (or it will just crack in the new hole.

I don''t know exactly where these screws are but on a lot of the newer "Mid-Level" production boats there are backing plates "embedded" in the fiberglass in areas of high stress (like where clutches are placed, etc). But I bet that in areas of low-stress/importance (door hing?) there isn''t any. It sounds like a poor mechanical design for the load that is induced on these areas. Alot of the newer bigger boats that have been in production for a while usually work these annoying design flaws out after a few years.

BTW, I agree with Denr in this is the area, that this is where you would notice the difference between a Hinckley and a "Mid-Level" production boat. Not necesarily in sailing charcteristics, but the fit and finish and small details that might make the boat just a little more of a joy to use. But then again thats why you pay Hundreds of Thousads of dollars more for the boat. But I think proper design would eliminate most issues. Though using self tapping screws on piano door hinges is not a "cheap and dirty way to put things together" Typically its the ONLY way to attach something. Its all in the design. I am sure I can go on a Hinckley today and find LOTS of self tapping screws, especially down below. Its just where they use them. I know in the 80''s some manufacturers where saving time/money by using self tapping screws on things like a Hull to Deck joint. Now that is where if I was beating the wrong way around cape Horn that I would rather have the beefier through bolting. But in some areas its the only way to go.


bmcald 05-23-2002 12:24 PM

Loose screws
 
The boat is a 1981 Mystic 20 catboat. The cabin door is exterior, instead of hatch boards.

The cockpit locker hinge can probably be drilled thru and bolted, but I''m not sure about the cabin door hinge, will have to check what''s on the other side. Wouldn''t look too pretty, tho, and could result in a leak.

tsenator 05-23-2002 01:09 PM

Loose screws
 
bmcald,

Thats what I figured. Nice Little daysailor the Mystic 20 catboat . Its funny that denr took this opportunity to bash production boats when we are talking about a 20 year old daysailor. He can''t resist. But I bet you could thru bolt and make it look decent on the inside by putting "cap nuts" to cover the bolt end. that is if the geometry allows it. good luck

Denr 05-23-2002 01:46 PM

Loose screws
 
It funny that tsenator (Csimms or Osama) took offense, he knows better than most these typical problems as his boat is as full of them as he is full it! Cap nuts...you''re such a hack! I suppose that you fill the holes with spackling on your boat.

tsenator 05-23-2002 03:38 PM

Loose screws
 
Excuse me.....(lol). I didn''t take offense I was actually answering a question. Its funny I even I agreed you in this area concerning details where you would notice the difference
between a "High-end" and a "Mid-Level" production boat.

Its been said before you have "some" good knowledge, but at times you come off as very "boarish", the more you respond like you do the more people realize you can be a self righteous numbnut. And there are just as many times when you are wrong, but can never admit it. "Pride goeth before the fall"

BTW, I guess you didn''t understand (I''m not going to insult you like you feel the need to do) Cap Nuts are used on the exposed ends of bolts on the insides of lots of boats to dress up the ends. ((Take a look here for anyone that doesn''t know what a cap-nut looks like http://www.voltplastics.com/kCN.htm ) They are not to be used as load bearing fastener. Why is using Cap nuts to make things look better on the inside cause me to be a hack? Do you just leave the ends of your bolts with nylock nut and washer exposed on the inside of the boat so you can scrape some flesh off yourself if you happen to hit it?. To me THAT is a hack ! I don''t know if you read it but the original poster expressed a concern that "it wouldn''t look too pretty" I know I''ve seen Cap-nuts on the insides of a lot of high quality boats ...I just looked at pictures of new Moody 42 and they use Cap nuts on the ends of their Bolts on their Chain plates. (sigh.... I guess they are hacks too). The more I think about it I recall cap nuts on almost every boat (high-end also) I''ve seen at boat shows in one place or another.

ps... and lay of the Osama crap , my father used to work in the World Trade Center, I used to work a block away, someone from my company was in one plane and someone from my gym was on the plane that went down in Penn. and I know other people that were murdered that day. It offends me, and I''m sure it offends many Americans to so loosely use that name.

bmcald 05-24-2002 03:05 AM

Loose screws
 
Hey guys, lighten up. You both offered good advice and I thank you for it, but this is just an inquiry about loose screws. No need to go ballistic!

Denr 05-24-2002 04:24 AM

Loose screws
 
The only loose screw around this BB is tsenator!


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