Boomed Staysail - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 04-01-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,548
Thanks: 5
Thanked 71 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Boomed Staysail

The new Womboat is essentially cutter rigged. Double headsail sloop if you want to be picky about it.

The thing is that the staysail is on a boom. Self tacking, loose footed but boomed.

Why ?

Can anyone give me a good reason for the boom ? For the life of me I cannot see it's advantages while there are obviously a few negatives. Mainly it looks clumsy and it weighs a fair amount.

I guess the boom could be used as a hoist but other than that ?

Am I missing something here ?
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 04-01-2008
jrd22's Avatar
Courtney the Dancer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Juan Islands., WA, USA
Posts: 3,820
Thanks: 3
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 14
jrd22 will become famous soon enough
It makes the staysail self tacking, reduces the workload when coming about. I agree about them looking clunky and being in the way. On our new (to us) boat we will just be flying a standard staysail on a removeable inner forestay. What type of boat are you looking at?

John
__________________
John
SV Laurie Anne

1988 Brewer 40 Pilothouse

Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 04-02-2008
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,925
Thanks: 75
Thanked 214 Times in 206 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
The staysail boom is the easiest way (least amount of hardware) to make the sail self-tacking.

If you want that feature, but not the boom, you need an Elvstrom-style traveller track for the staysail - arguably just as much in the way depending on just where it would have to live to be effective.

If the rig geometry is such that the inner forestay can be removed, as jrd suggests, then perhaps that is something to investigate and you'll have the added advantage of not having to tack the genoa around the inner stay all the time. But it will also require rethinking the sheeting arrangements for the staysail.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 04-02-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,548
Thanks: 5
Thanked 71 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
It makes the staysail self tacking, reduces the workload when coming about. I agree about them looking clunky and being in the way. On our new (to us) boat we will just be flying a standard staysail on a removeable inner forestay. What type of boat are you looking at?

John
She's a Passport 42.

I can't quite see why the boom makes it self tacking. Given that there is no overlap wouldn't it still be self tacking without the boom ? That's what confuses me.

Interestingly enough I've looked at other P42s advertised for sales in the US and Europe and they all appear to have a boomless staysail.


Cheers
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 04-02-2008
Plumper's Avatar
Sailor
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 845
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Plumper is on a distinguished road
Staysails can be rigged to be self tacking with or without booms. the boom is cheaper and easier but in the event of an accidental tack or jibe while you are on the foredeck, the boom can take your legs out from underneath you. The boomless self tacking staysail is a little safer.
__________________
There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar IV, iii, 217
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 04-02-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,548
Thanks: 5
Thanked 71 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
The staysail boom is the easiest way (least amount of hardware) to make the sail self-tacking.

If you want that feature, but not the boom, you need an Elvstrom-style traveller track for the staysail - arguably just as much in the way depending on just where it would have to live to be effective.

If the rig geometry is such that the inner forestay can be removed, as jrd suggests, then perhaps that is something to investigate and you'll have the added advantage of not having to tack the genoa around the inner stay all the time. But it will also require rethinking the sheeting arrangements for the staysail.
Are you stalking me ??

Hey, there is a track of sorts that the sheet attaches to. Tacking the big genoa aorund the inner is a right royal pain in the butt but I'd like to try her out using a high cut yankee and the inner. Failing that I will investigate making the inner removeable although I suspect this will necessitate a baby stay.
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 04-02-2008
SimonV's Avatar
Wish I never found SN!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 1,996
Thanks: 3
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
SimonV will become famous soon enough
TDW, you didn't say if it was on a furler. I have a removable inner and it takes about 5 min to set up and another 5 to hank on the staysail. Not being a true cutter and I think the P42 is the same boat you’re not supposed to be tacking back and forth but staying on one tack for long periods. I will only set the inner when on passage or when the Genoa is too big for the conditions.
__________________
Simon
Ericson 39B.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I love my boat
S/V GOODONYA
Brisbane
present location Heading to the Whitesundays

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

DELIVERY SKIPPER
Drinking Rum before 10am makes you a Pirate NOT an alcohlic
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 04-02-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,548
Thanks: 5
Thanked 71 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
I'm an idiot. No , don't deny it, you are just being charitable. Really, you are. Oh stop it. But you're sweet nonetheless.

Of course if I get rid of the boom I'll need a much longer track right across the foredeck or the thing will never sheet in correctly. The track that the boom attaches to is really too short for boomless. Probably still worth doing though, particularly if it's feasible to make the inner removeable. The track, or more importantly the frame it would need to sit on would not be inexpensive.

On the other hand as I said before I want to see how she sails under yankee and staysail. Ms W is definitely going to prefer tacking the yankee rather than the genoa. If I'm happy with her performance under yankee and staysail I'll probably bite the bullet, get rid of the boom and make the inner removeable for very light winds.

Simon, yes the genoa is on a furler but not the staysail. Which does suggest another problem in that removing and bagging a big furling genoa is a right bugger, not to mention putting it back on. In that regard hanks are way ahead of luff wire for a furler.
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.

Last edited by tdw; 04-02-2008 at 04:42 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 04-02-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,238
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Rockter will become famous soon enough
Welcome to the cruise....

Image of Loch Oich, Scotland - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

It makes a rather tame mini wing-and-wing, and it tacks fairly well. Really, a wee staysail is not used much, apart from when hard to weather.

I would leave it, as you will have to work on a new track if you remove it. You can paint them and they are good for leaning against when on the fordeck and useful things like that. It's too narrow to balance a beer on, even when in port.

Rockter.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 04-02-2008
hphoen's Avatar
"Nevis Nice"
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 224
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 12
hphoen is on a distinguished road
Smaller genoa with cutter rig

Wombat,

I agree with your thought pattern on the genoa--you don't need a big one unless you sail in fairly light conditions most of the time, and then you wouldn't need the staysail. My gennie is a 110% with a fairly high-cut foot. With just a little practice, you'll be able to tack it over the staysail stay with no problems in all but the lightest air. Just let out the jibsheet a few feet as you come into the wind, so that a "pocket" of sailcloth forms between the forestay and the staysail stay. Then backwind it a bit as you come over.

With a 110% gennie, you might consider buying an asymmetrical spinnaker for reaching in lighter conditions. Easy to handle with a snuffer sock and ATM Tacker, even single-handed.
__________________
Hud
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sailing a Cutter Rig Dan Dickison Buying a Boat Articles 0 12-09-2001 07:00 PM
Sailing a Cutter Rig Dan Dickison Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 12-09-2001 07:00 PM
Daisy Staysail Dan Dickison Seamanship Articles 0 08-07-2000 08:00 PM
Daisy Staysail Dan Dickison Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 08-07-2000 08:00 PM
Daisy Staysail Dan Dickison Racing Articles 0 08-07-2000 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:51 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.