any tests or comparisons on batteries?

[rrgane]

i have been out looking and surfing trying to get info on batteries for a while now, and i think i have a good understanding of my needs, but when it comes to hard data, i can't find anything as to manufacturer quality such as longevity-cycles, failures, etc.

what i do find is opinions usually in very broadbrush terms like 'Lifeline are best', which is a wonderful sentiment, but it's difficult for me to use that kind of information. hasn't anyone, somewhere done a roundup test on batteries?

just a little more specifically, i am leaning right now for group 29/30/31 (i know 29's and 30's aren't technically recognized group sizes, but some manufacturers use those numbers) basically something in the >100 <140 ah capacity, i am going against the trend of AGM for a few reasons: first i am a cheap bastard at heart, second i want to see that my system is proper to my needs before i plunk down on AGM, i am scared off a bit that if i have 4 AGMs and one goes bad i would need to replace all 4 to the same manufacture date, and i am not installing these batteries upside down, or in some other unusual position.

i have read that at least for wet/flooded batteries there are basically only a few manufacturers, and they are all 'pretty good' which makes say to myself "damn the torpedoes, full stream ahead .. to WalMart", also the cruisers that i have read about using EverStart all seem to think they are 'great', but even my cheapest most thrifty side can't overcome the worry of buying from WalMart..

so .. any test comparisons between DieHard, EverStart, SeaVolt etc. ? being that batteries are such a mission critical piece of hardware, and a tidy investment it seems someone someplace must have?

[TrueBlue]

I have no hard data, but there may be a reason why Trojan is found in more high-end boats at my marina then any other brand. Personally, I've had no problems with Trojan batteries, 2-4Ds which I inherited in my last boat (7 years old and they still hold a charge for days on anchor), and 2 Group 28's I bought for the boat before that.

But then again, it is the featured brand at my marina's Ship's Store.

[xort]

First question is what sort of charging system do you have? Can it properly charge AGM or Gel Cell batteries? If not then don't even consider them unless you want to change out the charging system too.
Dig out the manual for your charger and do some research on it so you know what you are dealing with.

[erps]

It also depends on how you plan to use them and for how long. The folks living off the grid like the 2v wet cell fork lift batteries. They can survive discharges down to 80%, if one cell goes bad you can replace just that cell and some guys get 15 years or more out of them. Downside is a large up front cost.

[rrgane]

Originally Posted by TrueBlue

I have no hard data, but there may be a reason why Trojan is found in more high-end boats at my marina then any other brand. Personally, I've had no problems with Trojan batteries, 2-4Ds which I inherited in my last boat (7 years old and they still hold a charge for days on anchor), and 2 Group 28's I bought for the boat before that.

But then again, it is the featured brand at my marina's Ship's Store.

yes, i agree there is a reason trojan, lifeline, surrette, etc. are all considered premium batteries... but how much better are they, if in fact they are much better? i know they are a lot more money!! are we all paying twice as much for a premium battery that has a 3% longer life? or .05% less failure rate? or maybe the premium price is worth it with a 200% longer life and a 50% less failure rate. with only opinions like better, best, good, crap it's really hard to judge.

i do not deny the security of having 'the best money can buy' .. but being a cheapskate, i want 'the most money can buy'..

i always get a little suspicious when this kind of hard data is so hard to find.

[TrueBlue]

Agree with your suspicions rr, and when I posed similar questions to the store proprietor, he claimed the lead plates are much thicker on quality wet cell batteries, then the budget varieties.

Aside from that, we have all learned that many things marine related, just seems to be an excuse to charge more.

[rrgane]

Originally Posted by xort

First question is what sort of charging system do you have? Can it properly charge AGM or Gel Cell batteries? If not then don't even consider them unless you want to change out the charging system too.
Dig out the manual for your charger and do some research on it so you know what you are dealing with.

yes, i will have a system that CAN work with either agm/gel or flooded. i will have a pair of kyocera 65-> bluesky, my shore power charger switches between flooded and agm/gel, i do not know about my universal m3-20b alternator .. but i imagine it's fine.

i probably will at some point move to agms, but until i know what i really need in real world application, i am happy to have flooded.

[artbyjody]

I think one the reasons Trojans and Surrates are so popular - is that they are proven commercial batteries. Businesses like Caterpillar, Railways, airlines, etc - the battery is one of the most crucial aspects of the equipment, and therefore demand the best engineering and they get them (with the premium) but also with a guarantee of low failure rates and minimal maintenance upkeep..(they also tend to have better warranties)...

Golf cart batteries on the other hand got popularity due to DIY projects such as those featured in Popular Science - and was a cheap way to 'power up'...

The issue with batteries and testing them is the usage patterns and mechanical systems they are used in is wide and varied, as are the battery installations...for instance a car battery is typically only used to start the car and maybe if not enough juice generated from the alternator, battery may supply. So in some usage scenarios the batteries are constantly drained and topped off constantly, others short bursts of heavy use then charged back up, etc...so in the end the industry rule of % is just adopted but each battery may indeed be a bit different and so the test data may not be accurate - but accurate enough....in other cases you have 6V in series and how does that compare to 12V battery to begin with etc...

[camaraderie]

rrgane...your question is a good one and I am not aware of ANY independent testing of deep cycle batteries in use similar to living on the hook. We are a very small market...the batteries we buy are generally built for other uses (with an appropriate "marine" label slapped on) and many mfrs. don't even include the specs WE look for on their spec sheets. This is further complicated by non standard sizes...different charging/cycling regimes, temperature variations, depth of discharge variations, etc.
So we are left to fend for ourselves, rely on the word of others (who may have unwittingly abused the batteries thy complain about), or accept a non-disinterested manufacturer's claims.

The best I can offer in answer to your question is VonWentzels battery calculator which allows you to download your needs and then compare actual long term costs of various batteries based on a number of parameters (and based on mfr specs). The explanation and download link for his excel worksheet is here:
Battery Cost Model Inputs and Outputs: Gel, AGM, Flooded

I would avoid the Walmart batteries based on a slew of comments about their quality. Die Hards are just normal batteries that are heavily marketed and priced to fund their warranty (was in the business...first hand knowledge!). No bargains in either place.
For long term cruising and daily discharge on the hook my own preference if outfitting today would be based on performance/cost=value:
1. Odyssey PureLead AGM
2. Lifeline AGM
3. Deka AGM
4. Trojan T-105's Flooded
(Note...this assumes a charging system that can take best advantage of each type...otherwise stick with flooded!)

If I were just going cruising for a year or two...I would stick with flooded and I believe the construction quality of the Trojan's and their price make them a better deal than the Rolls/Surette stuff.

[rrgane]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

rrgane...your question is a good one and I am not aware of ANY independent testing of deep cycle batteries in use similar to living on the hook ....

The best I can offer in answer to your question is VonWentzels battery calculator which allows you to download your needs and then compare actual long term costs of various batteries based on a number of parameters (and based on mfr specs). The explanation and download link for his excel worksheet is here:
Battery Cost Model Inputs and Outputs: Gel, AGM, Flooded

thanks for the worksheet link Camaraderie! and thanks to all who answered, i guess i feel better knowing i have been looking in vain for this info, just like everybody else! i mind a great deal less spending copious amounts of time fruitlessly, as long as i know i am not alone