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  #11  
Old 04-04-2008
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Brezzin-

The "TRUE" wind reading on Raymarine instruments is only an estimate... it really isn't ACCURATE IMHO, since a current could easily throw it off.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2008
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I have to ask, what makers ARE using GPS SOG to actually determine and display true wind? Any? On what class of instruments?
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Old 04-04-2008
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None that I know of yet... Maretron might be, but I'm not sure...
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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  #14  
Old 04-04-2008
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Well, I agree to you that good sense is ....

unvaluable, and many has developed a 6th sense to that. I red people heading navigation based on wave shape, I personally saw an experienced sailor finding our way through a foggy afternoon just looking to the dirt milky water to find a channel entrance. But, if you often navigate in unknown grounds, that could pose some threat (minimized by your long run experience). Waves shape, sea state, wind gusts, etc .. are all dependent on the environmental conditions (sea bed, coast profile, latitude, pressure, etc ...) and your location IS the major condition. So, getting used to a familiar ground save a lot (I barely turn on my E80 on a typical day sailing). Aftermost, Raymarine drive me nuts by not recognizing their mistake (unforgivable) and my only explanation is to force you buy that #$$%##@ "paddle thing" !!
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Negrini, I think you are forgetting that the simplest answer is usually the most likely one.

Simple, as in, these instrument systems and processes have been in place way before GPS was available, or even LORAN. And the first and most basic instrument on any boat is usually the paddlewheel speed log.

There's no great conspiracy to force you to buy anything, they are simply calculating true wind (or what they consider true wind) by the same means they have done so for the past 30? 40? years. Which is by taking a wind sensor and adding it to the paddlewheel that already was installed on almost every boat interested in any kind of instrumentation.

Old, simple, crude, lazy, incorrect, might all spring to mind. But forcing you to buy more of anything? I don't think so. Raymarine only "forces" you to use their rayspeak-gear for everything, rather than making everything work with NMEA. That's enough "forcing". (Either you buy their gear, or their converter boxes, either way, that's proprietary enough to be a stopper for some boats.)

Now, instead of trying to make Raymarine change their ways, why not find some sailors who have computer skills, and let them set up a freeware program that runs on cheap laptops, integrating universal masthead wind sensors and GPSes to produce real true wind and other data? You could cut Raymarine out of the picture entirely that way, it should be a simple (ha) exercise.

Of course without the paddle thingy, you may know SOG but you'll never know what currents you are in. I'd call a boat without a knotmeter "hopelessly impaired" for racing navigation, no matter how good the GPS was.
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Old 04-05-2008
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Here is the answer. This message talks about how to make these instruments use SOG instead of STW.
gadgetPool.de Forums-viewtopic-SeaTalk-NNMEA-Bridge : True Wind direction SOG/STW
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Old 04-05-2008
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Good dig Brak! That seems to take care of it!
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Old 04-05-2008
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Had the same argument with Raymarine tech people at the Annapolis show a few years ago. Same crappy excuses. The SOG is on the data bus but would require a firmware upgrade to use it in the calculation of true wind speed and angle and they had no interest in the upgrade.
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Old 04-05-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speciald View Post
Had the same argument with Raymarine tech people at the Annapolis show a few years ago. Same crappy excuses. The SOG is on the data bus but would require a firmware upgrade to use it in the calculation of true wind speed and angle and they had no interest in the upgrade.

I bet this is a trivial fix that someone could even do on their own. It would likely literally require searching the firmware binary and replacing STW with SOG. I think the format of data is the same, so that would be the only thing.
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Old 04-06-2008
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Thanks Hello ! This reminds me how good sense can drive us back to the rails. You're right, and I don't wanna make this a battle horse. I'm an old "lab rat" computer engineer, and should have avoided such trap a long ago. Brack, your search is correct STW and SOG have the same NMEA sentence format, and once you have a SeaTalk bridge, you can easily translate into whatever you want. My boat has 4 parallel nets for reliability (NMEA, SeaTalk, HSBus and Wireless) and using my StandardHorizon Plotter, I think I could bridge it. When spoke to Ray's engineer, I suggested to look first at SOG sentence, then STW, but you know how they care about it. Anyway, I like the idea to dump the firmware and change the setence match, that would be interesting, fixing and very very very very fun to me ..... once I have the time and the courage to split a ST60 appart, will share with you all.
Thanks guys. As my first post, I feel this is THE forum to be in !!!
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