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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
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  #101  
Old 05-01-2008
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yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailormann View Post
The systems do work. They are quiet, don't vibrate like a diesel and are much less harsh on the environment. If you do a bit of digging, you'll find quite a few craft that rely on electric engines as their sole means of propulsion. I think that if we took all of the home-built, the experimental and the commercially-built units together, we'd find there are a couple of thousand electric boats out there.

The problem is the energy storage system. I think that the interest in the field is growing quickly, and with the price of oil being what it is, a lot of very good research is going to be done in this are over the next decade.

I'm thinking we'll all be using electric in fifteen years.
Yes. I agree. Thank you, no one seams to pay attention to anyone else. They may not be perfect, but storage tech is changing daily.
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  #102  
Old 05-01-2008
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I agree Engele...you have not attacked me (unlike your buddy) and vigorous debate is healthy. But I don't see any attack on YOU either...What I see are members questioning your relationship with solidnav and if you have any PERSONAL financial interest in seeing electric boats become widespread. They are suspicious because you show up talking about electric and your friends company and despite being a member since 2006, you have ONLY posted on this single subject and only within the last few days. There is NO problem if you have commercial interest...but the rules here require you to disclose. So...what's the story?
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  #103  
Old 05-01-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engele View Post
That was actually worth reading, not definitive, but at least not out of tin air.
It was and is definitive. I alluded to it my previous posts in this thread. You say you have done research on this but failed to find any of it? Your research must have began and ended at Solidnav.com

Bendytoy's literature on the Lagoon 42 has this info publically available.

As to definitiveness:

3 hours of motor at half hull speed is a fact, and as a fact that is not enough to provide a normal and necessary safety factor for any but the most short sighted fair weather sailor.

Battery driven, regenerative charged, solar charged and wind charged pure electric systems are not technically feasible or economically prudent for long range cruising as done by the majority of real people out there. Sure it's been done, by daredevil technology demostrators off on their newest publicity seeking adventures, not by your average Joe and Jane.

Sailnet is a great place to talk sailing and facts, perceptions and such are probably better at SA or latts and atts.

Last edited by chucklesR; 05-01-2008 at 12:25 PM.
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  #104  
Old 05-01-2008
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It interests me

It's a subject that interests me. I have no financial interest in any sailing product of any kind, as much as I like sailing and wish I could be paid for it, I work in finance.

I joined sailnet to use the lists feature, and have browsed the forums for years. I think I'll stick to the lists.

I also have not claimed to be an authority on this subject at all. I have talked to people who have done it, including an all electric Catamaran and a few monohulls, but never to anyone who used a commercial off the shelf system.

I never advocated any particular product either by the way. My posts don't advertise for anyone. Electric has worked for the people I have talked to.

One of the reasons you might find people post for the first time is when they don't find information existing in the forums. I am considering the pitfalls and whether they are worth it. I think they are.

Aside from all of that, this whole thing seams a bit childish. It isn't what I was looking for, and I wasn't looking for an all pro-electric discussion either.

Anyhow there is no point in arguing over this anymore.
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  #105  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
I agree Engele...you have not attacked me (unlike your buddy) and vigorous debate is healthy. But I don't see any attack on YOU either...What I see are members questioning your relationship with solidnav and if you have any PERSONAL financial interest in seeing electric boats become widespread. They are suspicious because you show up talking about electric and your friends company and despite being a member since 2006, you have ONLY posted on this single subject and only within the last few days. There is NO problem if you have commercial interest...but the rules here require you to disclose. So...what's the story?
I don't have a commercial interest. I've met the owner of Solidnav, talked over beer about sailing, and like the idea of electric boats. By the way I did disclose that. I actually would like to see more of them out there, not for commercial reasons, but because I want to technology to move along more quickly and the best way for that to happen is to create demand.

I will probably go this route with a really nice diesel genset onboard. That aside, I am not sure I get the antagonism on the site.

It doesn't encourage people to post for the first time.
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  #106  
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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
There is NO problem if you have commercial interest...but the rules here require you to disclose.
Uh Oh. I think I'm in trouble. Where does one disclose their commercial interests?
If I repent and and subject myself to self flagellation can I be forgiven?
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  #107  
Old 05-01-2008
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Knot...we know you're a rigger...the problem comes when someone tries to hide what they are and then make comments to enhance their personal business. Not that you have ever done so...but if for any reason you decide to take that stance...then simply post your affiliation in your signature.

Thank for the response Engele...I accept your explanation. You might wanna read and understand those Nigel Calder articles I cited above before you make any re-powering decisions. Check out the coming battery technology as well before you lay in a lead mine.
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  #108  
Old 05-01-2008
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Nordhavn did a nice project with the diesel-electric propulsion. For the owner of the boat, he like the security knowing that he could lose one, or both of his main engines, and still run off his generator, 3 prime movers to keep the electric motors turning (system would also run off the battery bank for about 4 hours, the owner said it was his favorite trick to pull up to the docks silent)

On larger sail boat, running both a main engine and a genarator, couldnt this type system be used, to give you a fail safe if one engine fails?
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  #109  
Old 05-01-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgaddis View Post
Nordhavn did a nice project with the diesel-electric propulsion. For the owner of the boat, he like the security knowing that he could lose one, or both of his main engines, and still run off his generator, 3 prime movers to keep the electric motors turning (system would also run off the battery bank for about 4 hours, the owner said it was his favorite trick to pull up to the docks silent)

On larger sail boat, running both a main engine and a genarator, couldnt this type system be used, to give you a fail safe if one engine fails?
Yes, it could. The Nordhavn of course has room for a larger capacity of batteries though. That is a good example.

This type of configuration allows for the best of both worlds, though I've never actually been on a sailboat that was a hybrid like that.
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  #110  
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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Knot...we know you're a rigger...the problem comes when someone tries to hide what they are and then make comments to enhance their personal business. Not that you have ever done so...but if for any reason you decide to take that stance...then simply post your affiliation in your signature.

Thank for the response Engele...I accept your explanation. You might wanna read and understand those Nigel Calder articles I cited above before you make any re-powering decisions. Check out the coming battery technology as well before you lay in a lead mine.
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Yes battery technology is changing very quickly. Also on the horizon (supposedly) is capacitor based storage, though that may just be vaporware.

F1 racing is moving to a hybrid setup that is totally different from what we are used to as well, storing mechanical energy instead of electricity. Not helpful for sailing, but it does show that bright minds are working on the problem.

I expect both battery and fuel cell technology to get a lot cheaper in the next few years. The cost of producing solar energy has gone down significantly in the past few years as companies have moved towards using different materials to produce the cells. Hopefully we as consumers will get the benefit in a price break soon.

Storage is changing daily, but the motor technology is the same as it was fifty years ago, which is exactly why I am not afraid of a project like this.

My storage would be the last thing I would buy, and I would buy it as I experimented rather than trying to calculate my max use.

It's tough to say what a boat will use as far as fuel consumption on a regular boat with different props etc available, much less an exotic system like we are talking about here.

That isn't to say those concerns don't need to be addressed, but I don't really see a standard metric that will work across boat types to calculate what you would need to push it.

My guess is that a light Cat makes a lot of sense for these systems, but that isn't what I own.

I am still leaning in this direction.
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