Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Blogs               
Boat Search (new)




Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Gear & Maintenance
User Name
Password
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 Like this article?  Digg It!  or   Bookmark it!
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008
hellosailor's Avatar
hellosailor hellosailor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,106
Rep Power: 3
hellosailor will become famous soon enough
Optima: A good battery with a terrible price, to support their extensive advertising. No, you won't find it sold at discount clubs, that would tar the image of exclusivity. Once their patent monopoly runs out, the competition should kick in but in the meantime they're making hay while the sun shines.

Flat-plate AGMs from other sources will be 30-40% less expensive, with a higher energy density since they aren't packing round "pegs" in a rectangular form factor, too. About 5-10% more AH in the same size groups.

"Sounds like a lot of charging capacity... 70 amps [for] 6 lead acid batteries (100 a.h. each) ...80% charge (mayby 6-8 hrs)..."
70 amps for 600AH of batteries? (Assuming they are 12V batteries, not 6v.) Wet cells can arguably charge at 1/5th C, so those batteries could take a 100% charge in five hours at a 120A charging rate. More like 135-140 to overcome charging losses. So with a 70A charging rate, if your charger is running flat out, I'd still expect the batteries would need ten hours or longer for a full charge cycle. That makes 6-8 hours for 80% not so bad, really. And if the PO never equalized them, of they've got some sulphate...not so bad, really. You could easily make good use of doubling your charger output though!


"Odyssey batteries...were less per a.h. than the Optimas" Funny thing about that.[g] Just about everything is, except perhaps Rolls or Surette or other industrial/commerical batteries, which are another game entirely.

A lot of solar panels were warrantied for 25 years, but as warranty claims from the harsher marine environment have added up, almost all the makers have either way shortened that, or excluded marine use.


"...the charger. ...slid back...not putting in nearly what I expected."
There are all sorts of charging logics being used. A microporocessor controlled system using PWM (as MPPT chargers do) can be fiendishly efficient. Conventional three-stage chargers (even if they are called 4 or 5 stage) simply can't match their performance, but it sounds like you charger is going way too conservatively. Probably because the Odyssey battery type is something totally new to the market, and any charger based on conventional fixed logic simply will NOT be able to accomodate it! That might be something to discuss with Victron, they might be interested in developing a smarter charge controller to work in installations with premium batteries. Heck, they might already have something in development. If not, speak to Odyssey, since a better battery is still only halfway better if there's no matching charger!

NC might very well have used manual charge control. That's effective, and one kludge might be for you to fool your charger by diddling with the charge sensor or the temp sensor, to report a false voltage back to the regulator that will work better with your batteries. Odyssey SHOULD be able to figure that out and tell you what is safe for the batteries. If they are supporting fast charge claims--they've got to tell folks how to do it safely.

"This is considerably a higher voltage than Odyssey specifies as...killing the warranty but the battery also. " Which of course says that maybe NC's claims are NOT substantiated by the maker, if you want the batteries to last. If Odyseey won't warranty them, and NC won't warranty them [g] you know which one to believe.
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008
camaraderie's Avatar
camaraderie camaraderie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 9,967
Rep Power: 8
camaraderie has a spectacular aura aboutcamaraderie has a spectacular aura about
DW...thanks for all the detail...very interesting. I'm guessing that you are not getting full charging due to cross-feed ...perhaps from the solar panels..tricking your Victrons into a lower charge rate.
Are you monitoring AH use with a Link or similar to know what % discharge you have? You say your panels should put out 3.5a each....but at what voltage...i.e what is the wattage? How are those regulated?
If you wind...suggest you look only at big blade units like the KISS or 4 winds if you want decent/usable output at anchor.
250ah's is a big daily budget but it sounds as if you will be just fine once you get the bulk charge rate issue sorted out.

BTW...the revival with 16V+ voltage is more akin to an EQ charge and probably is OK for a short while to shake things up a bit in an otherwise "lost" situation. Not something to do on your own especially if you're already covered by warranty.
__________________
Tayana 52 Ketch
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
sailingdog sailingdog is offline
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 24,612
Rep Power: 5
sailingdog is a jewel in the roughsailingdog is a jewel in the roughsailingdog is a jewel in the rough
Yup, I can confirm what Chuckles said... he even paid me a nice fat check to back up his version of events.

Actually, his 80 Watt solar panel does seem to keep his batteries topped off,e ven with the CO2, Propane and other stuff running. Please remember that the refrigerator on his boat is a propane powered beastie and not really a huge electrical drain on the batteries though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Heinzir,
I use 3 D34 Optima's, a 80W panel and never top off with my charger; the diesel had a 55amp alternator so that helps. During the season I drain down to about 80% on a heavy use night.

I have seldom opened my boat up and had less than 99.9 % of charge on my XBM monitor - including after sitting in the water from October thru March (I have CO2, propane sensors, and other things running 24X7 all year long).

SD can confirm that, he was there when I opened the boat and checked.
I'm more concerned with your Ah bank, while I like the battery for 'use and abuse' maintenance it seems it may be too small and cause you to over drain it.
Only time will tell.
__________________
Sailingdog

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Captain Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity (slightly edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this POST.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2008
JiffyLube's Avatar
JiffyLube JiffyLube is offline
Grasshopper
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oceanside, Ca.
Posts: 320
Rep Power: 1
JiffyLube is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Jiffy...A 3 stage charger is an absolute must for AGM's...but I meant more than that.
In order to get the benefit of faster charging times...you must have a system that can deliver MORE amps to the batteries than similar flooded batteries could take. Example...lets take a 400ah battery bank.
If you had flooded batteries you could put 80amps into them during bulk charging (20% of capacity).
With AGM's...you could easily put 160amps into them thus cutting your charging time in half...BUT on the hook you need a 160a charger working off a generator or a 160a alternator that can give that much output in order to realize that benefit. Either way, you need a 3stage charger or regulator along with the additional capacity.
That's why I said charging system rather than just one component of the system.
Cam, thank you for that explanation.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery question Northbeach Gear & Maintenance 9 01-10-2008 10:55 PM
Battery Bank Design Kevin Jeffrey Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 05-12-2003 08:00 PM
Battery Bank Design Kevin Jeffrey Cruising Articles 0 05-12-2003 08:00 PM
Installing a New Battery Bank Sue & Larry Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 09-26-2002 08:00 PM
Boat Battery Power East Penn Manufr. Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 01-18-1999 07:00 PM

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
(c) Sailnet 2000-2006