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  #1  
Old 05-07-2008
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propshaft seals

Hi everyone.
I have been thru the site and read as much as I can regarding PSS seals.
I have an issue that I am hoping someone will be able to weigh in on.
Our boat (Ticon 30) was equipped with a lasdrop dripless seal that did not live up to it's name( To be fair, it is likely a 1st gen seal(black bellows). Retensioning the bellows helped a little, but not much. Was tempted to go back to SB, but was afraid of what I would find on the shaft, as expected, the shaft is damaged where the SB was.
Bought the PYI seal, good call on my part, much beefier assembly with 2 o-rings to seal the shaft instead of 1.
The boat is currently on it's cradle. The instructions say to center the shaft, install and launch.
Everything I have read says the you should not adjust until the boat is in the water.
I cannot see how I would do this without sinking.

As it sits now, (bellows off) shaft slid into coupling and coupling slid against trans. Shaft is off center (towards port) by a maybe 1/16th inch, as seen inside the boat. At the flange it looks like a few thousandths (forgot the feeler gauge at home)
To complicate matters the boat yard has moved the boat(while apart) and it is no longer sitting in the cradle correctly,rear starboard pad has oil canned the hull, having it sorted out today, I hope.
The deflection coincides with the mis-alignment in that the wide part of the gap is to port.

So, do I assemble and hope for the best?
Do I adjust it and hope for the best?
Would a deflected hull (3ft away) affect the shaft log position?

Unfortunately the flange was seized so I do not know if it was close when it came apart.
Additionally, whoever installed it last time, used a whole bottle of thread sealant all over the flange bolts, nearly impossible to remove (red and smelled like locktite) is this standard protocol. the flange bolts are socket head capscrews and not wire-able, I could see maybe 1 drop of blue to make sure they don't back out, but am leaning towards never-seize on the shaft, as I do not like using the trans flange/shaft nut as press.
What is the right way to put this all together?
Thanks
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Old 05-07-2008
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jjns-

Most boats are going to change shape a bit when floating, as opposed to when sitting on stands, since the weight is distributed differently, and the presence of water will affect the way the hull distorts.

Make sure your bilge pumps work and the batteries are topped off... to take care of the inevitable water that does get in until you have the seal adjusted properly.

If it was red locktite, it will need to be heated to be loosened as a general rule. Using blue locktite, instead of neverseez is probably a good idea.
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Old 05-07-2008
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I thought the PSS bellows tension is set by positioning the opposing PSS rotor on the shaft as specified in the instructions. Is that the adjustment you are referring to? Isn't the shaft alignment pretty much unrelated? And isn't the shaft alignment pretty much determined by installing it through the cutlass bearing (whether it's in strut or stern tube)? Are you referring to engine mount alignment adjustment? If so, how will that sink the boat?
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Old 05-07-2008
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jjns,

I have a PYI seal that I installed a few years back and don't understand your comment about not being able to adjust the shaft alignment without sinking.

To install the PSS, the shaft needs to be installed in the flange, the flange bolted together, then the PSS bellows can be compressed with the ring to the proper measurement (3/4 of an inch if I remember right), then set screwed in position. Once the boat in back in the water then the flange can be unbolted and the shaft alignment adjusted. The seal works by the bellows applying pressure between the Carbon ring that is attached the the bellows and the SS ring, Additional compression on the bellows will not cause a leak, the bellows will actually alow some misalignment of the the shaft to the stern tube, without leaking. The question is do you have enough room with the PSS installed to open the flange to adjust the shaft alignment and install a safty collar.

I also intalled a split 316 SS shaft collar to aid in the installation and added security. With my shaft all installed and the bellows attached to the stern tube. I pressed the SS ring of the PSS to the carbon ring with out compressing the bellows and installed a split collar behind it just flush. Then I used a couple of pieces of wood between the split collar and the SS ring 180 degrees apart, to hold in the proper bellow compression untill I had the Set screws tight. Then I loosened the Split ring and moved it flush to the SS ring and retightened incase the Set screws ever failed.

McMaster-Carr

I used Part number 9633T19 for a 1" shaft.



I also at the time replaced the existing bolts with ones also predrilled so that I could wire them, also available at McMaster Carr. I actually use a lot of hardware from them, they certify the materials well enough for the medical instruments, good price, right to my door or work so wife doesn't count it against my boat bucks.

I hope this helps, feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Pat
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Old 05-07-2008
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Pat

Nice find on the shaft collar...I just use a spare shaft zinc in front of mine easy to find...some may not have the room though.
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Old 05-07-2008
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Thanks,

The PO had a Zinc on the shaft infront of the packing gland, I did not want something that soft spinning inside the engine compartment. (Just presonal problem being a mechinical engineer). I have used these on other equipement and feel better about it taking a side load than the zinc if the PSS set screws or engine flange ever let go.

Pat
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Old 05-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjns View Post
The boat is currently on it's cradle. The instructions say to center the shaft, install and launch.
Everything I have read says the you should not adjust until the boat is in the water.
I cannot see how I would do this without sinking.

As it sits now, (bellows off) shaft slid into coupling and coupling slid against trans. Shaft is off center (towards port) by a maybe 1/16th inch, as seen inside the boat. At the flange it looks like a few thousandths (forgot the feeler gauge at home)
To complicate matters the boat yard has moved the boat(while apart) and it is no longer sitting in the cradle correctly,rear starboard pad has oil canned the hull, having it sorted out today, I hope.
The deflection coincides with the mis-alignment in that the wide part of the gap is to port.

So, do I assemble and hope for the best?
Do I adjust it and hope for the best?
Would a deflected hull (3ft away) affect the shaft log position?

Unfortunately the flange was seized so I do not know if it was close when it came apart.
Additionally, whoever installed it last time, used a whole bottle of thread sealant all over the flange bolts, nearly impossible to remove (red and smelled like locktite) is this standard protocol. the flange bolts are socket head capscrews and not wire-able, I could see maybe 1 drop of blue to make sure they don't back out, but am leaning towards never-seize on the shaft, as I do not like using the trans flange/shaft nut as press.
What is the right way to put this all together?
Thanks


#1 What you read is for the coupling alignment NOT the compression of the PSS bellows. The PSS bellows should be compressed and the compression adjustment made on the hard after the shaft has been centered as best as it can be. Many times the shaft is in alignment with the strut but the stern tube is fiberglassed incorrectly in relation to the engine bed. I only say this because I've seen a number of boats with this issue. A lot of that "centering" can be alleviated by simply adjusting the PSS bellows on the stern tube, side to side and up and down, until it's centered over the shaft.

#2 Final adjustment of a traditional stuffing box is done in the water but the PSS needs no adjustment other than the initial compression.

#3 If your flange came off hard, and your re-used it, you should have it checked by a reputable machine shop or prop/shafting shop before re-installation.

Why? When a non-split coupling is fitted and faced to a shaft the tolerance between the inside of the coupling and the shaft is within .0001 of an inch or better. When you remove the coupling, after any time, that layer of rust is usually more like .01-.001 so when they go back together they can wobble, causing the grub screws to become loose, and continually get worse until you have A) ruined the shaft or B) ruined the shaft and coupling. You should never re-use an old coupling once it's been removed unless it has been given the ok by a qualified machine or prop/shafting shop.

I see this time and time again, and unfortunately it's usually too late, and folks need a new shaft $$$ by the time they figured out what happened..

I always recommend replacing the coupling, and having the new one fitted and faced, EVERY TIME you pull the shaft. New couplings are about $45.00 and fit and face runs less than an hour's labor yet a new shaft is $400.00 to $800.00...

If it fit back on the shaft and you did not need a wooden mallet to drive it home THAT'S NOT GOOD!! The fit should require a decent pounding, with a wooden mallet, to get the shaft all the way back into the coupling.

#4 Before final adjustment of the engine alignment tune the rig and let the boat sit for a few days or sail it hard.

#5 When installing the PSS always plumb it in or vent it well above the heeled waterline. Do not just plug the hose barb hole it's there for a reason..

#6 As Pfatyol said ALWAYS back up the PSS's stainless rotor with something else as a fail safe. The shaft collar he recommends is a good one..
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 05-07-2008 at 02:00 PM.
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Main...There are two types of PSS seals...low speed and high speed...the low speed has no lube injection point..

I have the low speed water in the shaft log is all the lubes it.

Hay... I hit rep power 2.... I guess Im qualified to go to work today now..and order someone around... ...Carry on.

Last edited by Stillraining; 05-07-2008 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 05-07-2008
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Good post. When I next haul out, I'm going to a thrust bearing/articulated joint-coupler and PSS arrangement, all of which may involve cutting down the stern tube a bit. This is good information.
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Old 05-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
Main...There are two types of PSS seals...low speed and high speed...the low speed has no lube injection point..

I have the low speed water in the shaft log is all the lubes it.

Hay... I hit rep power 2.... I guess Im qualified to go to work today now..and order someone around... ...Carry on.
Not anymore and there has not been now for almost four or five years. PSS had too many problems with air becoming trapped in the seals. Contrary to the popular belief that you only need to burp at launch. There were many things including rough weather sailing and a quick burst of reverse that would force air up into the seal..

They have done away with slow speed seals and anyone installing one today will be getting a "vented" or "hose barbed" seal.. Like this one:

Installing a PSS Shaft Seal

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