Ugly lifelines

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by Plumper

Strip the plastic off and have a look. If the wire is still good, keep the life lines you've got, free! If the are corroded, replace them.

That's a sensible idea.

[T34C]

SD- and Dave- make a good point, however they both sail in salt water where the corrosion issue is a much bigger concern then what some of us have to deal with. Since we don't know where the OP is from maybe we should withhold judgement on the likelyhood of him having a corrosion problem.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by knothead

A lot of folks are going with bright wire, (non coated). I think that there are some new rule in racing circles that call for non coated wire.

Having said that, there is really no safety issue with vinyl coated wire if it is replaced when it should be . I have been replacing and building lifelines for a long time and the only time I have seen the actual wire fail is either when it's been kinked or damaged in some way or when it is due to be replaced.
Life lines are no different than standing rigging or running rigging. they wear out and they corrode.
The swages will usually always crack before the wire fails.
When you see a cracked swage, that tells you that it's time to replace the wire.
When you see cracks in the vinyl coating and you see rust marks around the crack, that tells you it's time to replace the wire.
When your turnbuckles are frozen solid and the stud shears off when you try to tighten them up, that tells you it's time to replace the wire.

Vinyl coated wire is more comfortable to lean against and it provides a better grip in your hand.
It is usually a 7x7 construction which is a little less flexible than 7x19 but nowhere near as stiff as 1x19.
1x19 wire is, in my opinion better looking, but is much more subject to kinking.
Do not use 7x19 wire (the flexible stuff usually used for halyards.
You will start seeing broken strands (meat hooks) in a very short time.

I have on occasion suggested to my customers who are concerned with the appearance of the vinyl but don't need or want to replace their lifelines to use those dreaded white PVC shroud covers.
From a distance they look new.

Good information knothead!

[genieskip]

About three years ago when my previous boat, an '85 Ericson 32, was on the hard, I was climbing aboard, holding the lifeline with my left hand and a stanchion with my right hand. Suddenly my left hand was totally unsupported as the wire on the lifeline, which had corroded unseen beneath the plastic coating, broke clean off at the fitting . Fortunately, I was holding on to the stanchion with my other hand and after a couple of seconds of interesting gyrations, I was able to regain my balance without falling off the ladder.

That was my lesson on why plastic covered lifelines are treacherous, at best and dangerous, at worst. There is a good reason why racing rules require boats to either have bare stainless (or hi tech line) or to strip the plastic off the first inch of lifeline after a fitting. If I had been in rough seas when that happened I certainly would have been over the side. It was naked stainless for me from then on.

[halekai36]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Halekai-

While the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser will clean up the vinyl coating, it will do little for the corroded stainless that is probably lurking beneath. If the stainless is corroded badly enough...the lifelines won't be safe, no matter how white they are or good they look.

I agree 100% but he did say this..

Originally Posted by papasailor

As ugly as they are, I believe they are still safe.

So, I have to take his word if he thinks they are safe. I not only suggested cleaning but also one of the new DIY "Stay-Loc" type kits which would be safer than an older lifelines..

[knothead]

Originally Posted by genieskip

About three years ago when my previous boat, an '85 Ericson 32, was on the hard, I was climbing aboard, holding the lifeline with my left hand and a stanchion with my right hand. Suddenly my left hand was totally unsupported as the wire on the lifeline, which had corroded unseen beneath the plastic coating, broke clean off at the fitting . Fortunately, I was holding on to the stanchion with my other hand and after a couple of seconds of interesting gyrations, I was able to regain my balance without falling off the ladder.

That was my lesson on why plastic covered lifelines are treacherous, at best and dangerous, at worst. There is a good reason why racing rules require boats to either have bare stainless (or hi tech line) or to strip the plastic off the first inch of lifeline after a fitting. If I had been in rough seas when that happened I certainly would have been over the side. It was naked stainless for me from then on.

How old were the lifelines? Where was the boat kept?
Everything has a safe working life-span. You can believe it or not. Your prerogative. But I am telling you after having done this for a living for 15 years that the vast majority of failures in regard to wire rigging is a direct result of neglect or abuse.

Occasionally, there is a defect in the product. And sometimes something may be installed incorrectly or incompletely. These things also may also lead to a problem or failure, but by far, most rigging failures could be avoided if people treated their rigging the way they would treat the tires on their car as opposed to how they treat the spare tire.
If you ignore, neglect or push it too far you are asking for trouble.

I have always tried to keep the vinyl tight against the terminal when I fabricate a lifeline but if it were mine and I were concerned about possible defects. I would certainly strip the vinyl from the wire. Then I would inspect it and the swages very carefully. If I didn't see a problem then I would probably apply a cable lube and then cover the wire with the aforementioned Davis PVC shroud covers.

Also, lifelines really shouldn't be used like you described. At the very least you will bend your stanchion or over stress the fasteners that are holding it to the deck. You are asking for leaks and loose, sloppy lifelines after you have used up all the adjustment in your turnbuckles believing that the "wires were stretching".

Never trust your life to a Lifeline.

[sailingdog]

IMHO, Lifelines, at least those found on most sailboats are more a reminder to stay on the boat than something to keep you on-board the boat... and often aren't really strong enough to keep you aboard if you should fall against them.

[brak]

on my boat, while it was in a yard, a mechanic from the yard used to help himself climb aboard by pulling on the stanchion. The stanchion is inserted into SS socket with re-enforcing welded "frame" (angled rod welded to socker and base). I told him this is probably unsafe, but he kept doing it until one day the base actually broke - weld failed and base bent, letting stanchion lean overboard. The guy almost fell 10 feet. They fixed the stanchion for me, but the lesson remains - lifelines are not to be trusted in any case, and most certainly not to be used to pull the boat, yourself onto the boat or anything of that nature. At most they are there to hang a towel to dry or create some mental comfort.

As far as failures go, I never seen actual wire fail (though anything's possible) but I did see swage fittings fail a few times and wire simply slip out of it. Lifelines are the last thing to be replaced, usually too little to late (and I am guilty of that as well, mine are probably beyond their useful age but with other things I don't think I have the budget for it).

Knothead, what would it cost to replace lifelines on a 35 foot boat?

[craigtoo]

Originally Posted by brak

Knothead, what would it cost to replace lifelines on a 35 foot boat?

I know you didn't ask me.... but I paid about 1700 for a 34 foot boat.


EDIT: SORRY BAD INFO: 950 for 34 foot boat. See later Post.

[sailingdog]

If you have double life lines, it would cost about $450-900 to do a 35' boat using the kits that Halekai pointed out in post #3 depending on if you have gates or not.

Originally Posted by brak

on my boat, while it was in a yard, a mechanic from the yard used to help himself climb aboard by pulling on the stanchion. The stanchion is inserted into SS socket with re-enforcing welded "frame" (angled rod welded to socker and base). I told him this is probably unsafe, but he kept doing it until one day the base actually broke - weld failed and base bent, letting stanchion lean overboard. The guy almost fell 10 feet. They fixed the stanchion for me, but the lesson remains - lifelines are not to be trusted in any case, and most certainly not to be used to pull the boat, yourself onto the boat or anything of that nature. At most they are there to hang a towel to dry or create some mental comfort.

As far as failures go, I never seen actual wire fail (though anything's possible) but I did see swage fittings fail a few times and wire simply slip out of it. Lifelines are the last thing to be replaced, usually too little to late (and I am guilty of that as well, mine are probably beyond their useful age but with other things I don't think I have the budget for it).

Knothead, what would it cost to replace lifelines on a 35 foot boat?