Opinion needed on lead keel cracks.

[seafarerGreg]

Hello folks.. I am a long time lurker, but have run into a problem, so i gotta post.

Here is a little background. The boat is a 1976 Grampian 28. the Lead keel had a fiberglass coating, but was blistered i a number of spots. so i ground down all the fiberglass right to the lead. now afterlooking at it i can see a number of cracks and bulges in the lead that are all i a line about 5 inches down from the top.

How far down do typical keel bolts reach.. this keel has 10 in total the the nuts and threaded rod look to be fairly good... all very tight no leaks between keel joint and hull.

I am just concerned if this is a sign that the keel is seperating below the bolts.


i drew a line to show where in relation the crackas are:

the only other option i can see is that there is a fair ammount of casting material in and around the survace of the lead keel. perhaps it has caused the lead to swell.. i gound into one area to see how far one of the cracks goes, and found casting material farther into the lead then i would have expected.

flickr.com/photos/23971349@N05/

(i see a can't post pictues due to lack of posts... thats a pain.. add w w w. in front of flickr thanks)

Any opinions? thanks in advance.

[sailingfool]

You sure that keel is lead, that sure looks like a steel keel to me...

As to your problem I've never seen anything like it, nor such a rough lead keel, I'd get a surveyor to look at it.

Good luck.

[knothead]

Originally Posted by seafarerGreg

Hello folks.. I am a long time lurker, but have run into a problem, so i gotta post.

Here is a little background. The boat is a 1976 Grampian 28. the Lead keel had a fiberglass coating, but was blistered i a number of spots. so i ground down all the fiberglass right to the lead. now afterlooking at it i can see a number of cracks and bulges in the lead that are all i a line about 5 inches down from the top.

How far down do typical keel bolts reach.. this keel has 10 in total the the nuts and threaded rod look to be fairly good... all very tight no leaks between keel joint and hull.

I am just concerned if this is a sign that the keel is seperating below the bolts.


i drew a line to show where in relation the crackas are:

the only other option i can see is that there is a fair ammount of casting material in and around the survace of the lead keel. perhaps it has caused the lead to swell.. i gound into one area to see how far one of the cracks goes, and found casting material farther into the lead then i would have expected.

flickr.com/photos/23971349@N05/

(i see a can't post pictues due to lack of posts... thats a pain.. add w w w. in front of flickr thanks)

Any opinions? thanks in advance.

Greg, where are you doing this work? is there a boatyard nearby or at least someone you could contact to take a look at the problem for you?
I looked at your photos but I don't think anyone will be able to give you real definitive answers to your questions based on those alone.
Perhaps you could contact a surveyor to evaluate the problem.

By the way, if you right click on the red underlined words in your post, the correct spelling of the word will appear. Try it.
You may also want to preview the post before submitting it. It helps.
I'm not trying to bust your chops but people will take you more seriously if you make an attempt to clean up your posts.

[Sailormann]

It does appear as though there might be an issue where the keel bolts have been cast into the metal. I believe that they fill the mould up to the point where the bolts are placed and then cast the remainder. This corresponds roughly to the area where your line is drawn.

Before you can accurately assess the situation you need to clean the keel up a bit more. There are some rusty fissures there that are a bit worrisome as lead doesn't turn rusty as it corrodes. You need to figure out where the rust is coming from. Is the keel in fact lead or is it a cementitious compound that has had pig iron or scrap steel tailings embedded in it ???

This was not an uncommon practice in the past. I am not aware of Grampian having done it but then again, I was never in the factory.

Once you have cleaned the fissures up properly you'll have a better idea of where the rust is coming from.

My gut feeling is that you would do best to put a new keel on the boat. They are not actually that expensive, and you may find that paying someone to fix this one is just as costly.

If, after cleaning the keel up, you decide that it is safe enough to go forward with, then fill every single fissure and crevice you can find, barrier coat the keel and the bottom of the boat and be very conscientious about making sure the keel is sealed properly. The salt water is very hard on submerged metals.

[Maine Sail]

If it were me I'd find out what's going on. Just from the pictures, and the sloppy look, it seems like it should have been an encapsulated keel but you say it has bolts? Where is the hull to keel joint? Why did you not open that up or grind it back? The thick edge of the fiberglass exposed where, it was cut back, would lead me to believe this was an encapsulated lead keel.

I found this ad on line. Is this your boat? G-28 For Sale If so, it sounds like the PO ground away the encapsulation and that would explain why the lead (could it be cement?) looks so bad. In general, external lead keels do not have a layer of "fiberglass" on them. Usually they have some fairing and filelr and just a layer of epoxy barrier coat they do not usually have fiberglass cloth, mat or roving. Lead generally does not crack..

If in fact he did grind away the encapsulation you'll need a pro, who's good with structural fiberglass repairs, to fix it...

Here's a link to the pictures of your keel: Keel Photos

[jgeissinger]

That's rust, my friend. As has already been suggested, that is a cast iron keel covered with fiberglass. It is all repairable, no matter how bad it looks. Some grinding, oxalic acid or other rust preventative, marine bondo and some glass and you're all set. A big job to be sure, but not insurmountable. And no, it's not going to fall off.

[seafarerGreg]

thanks for the replys and input.

It is infact a lead keel, i can press my fingernail into it pretty much. what some of you have commented as being rust is just a redish cement/sand which i would assume is from the casting of the keel.

it wasn't a encapsulated keel either, there is and was clearly a keel joint. the joint area is right where the hull paint stops, as well as the threaded rod and nuts to hold it to the boat.

That ad online is my add, i have two boats and no time to work on either, so i am going to sell one.. which ever goes first!! and keep the other. but it is not likely to sell till i at least get the keel coated.

i am almost sure it is lead all the way through, and not a lead coated cement keel. i suppose i could drill a test hole to make sure of the center material.

I am not sure where these red lines for spelling mistakes are that you speak of knothead?

Thank you very much for the input so far!!!

[sailingdog]

Knothead may be on a Mac, which has built-in spell checking...

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by sailingdog

Knothead may be on a Mac, which has built-in spell checking...

Or on a PC using the free, much safer and option loaded MOZILLA FIREFOX! Why anyone would still use Internet Explorer is beyond comprehension for me....

[sailingdog]

Wise beyond your years...

Originally Posted by halekai36

Or on a PC using the free, much safer and option loaded MOZILLA FIREFOX! Why anyone would still use Internet Explorer is beyond comprehension for me....