anchor set-up...

[camaraderie]

then what is the issue - are you being subsidized by Racnor now?

Yeah Craig Smith gave me a 10% cut on all 3 anchors he sold here this year!

[Craig Smith]

Oi Cam are you sure it wasn't Manson giving you the cut? You already omitted to mention that Rocna is available from West Marine also...

In any case I believe most of Halekai's sailing is in softish bottoms, where the differences between setting performance of anchors is lessened. Manson's Rocna copy features far less tip-weight, a heavily compromised skid design, and in the West Marine / SAIL testing, performed much less consistently. The differences are not just about cheapened construction and durability. More: About the Manson Supreme Anchor

Originally Posted by sailhog

This Friday I'm sailing with a friend up to Edisto Island. I'd planned to stay at the Marina, but it's Memorial Day weekend and they're out of slip space. However, I can anchor on Big Bay Creek, which is a tidal river with strong, reversing currents. At the moment I only have a 35-pound Danforth. I think I'm going to need to shackle some chain and a second anchor to the Danforth, or visa-versa in order to hold to the creekbed, which is a fairly light mud.

Any suggestions on how to go about doing this? What anchor would be the recommendation of the learned panel?

Well you musn't depend on the single Danforth, they are not general purpose anchors and are not to be relied upon for reversing or veering pulls.

What you probably want is a Bahamian moor, both anchors off the bow and set to each deal with one direction of the tide. In this case, the Danforth would actually be okay, unless you can expect strong winds from a perpindicular angle.

Do NOT do what you suggested and use a tandem rig, that is totally inappropriate for the situation and moreover is asking for problems with a Danforth.

If you're going to be getting a new anchor at all, then clearly all the same logic applies as usual. If you do your research right then Spade and Rocna will be top on the list. Avoid all copies of anything.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by artbyjody

So if both have done the same - how do you come to the conclusion the Rocna is any better than the Manson... your writing of experience is contradictory as I the casual reader seem to get they both performed the same thus if one is priced lessor then the lessor price is still the winner..

Colour me Colored..

Jody,

Perhaps you need to read it again? Cam's right on the money though the analogy is a little odd!! Seeing as I've broken anchors before I want the strongest design of a particular type I can find and the Rocna fits the bill.

Yes, performance wise they both suit me well but it's like comparing the construction quality of a Kia to that of a Toyota/Lexus. Call it personal opinion or experience but I call them as I see them..


Let's take another analogy to Cam's. You have a new boat, say a 38 footer, and it cost you LOTS of money to your budget. You want to buy a claw style anchor for it and have decided that looking for a good used FORGED genuine Bruce anchor is too much of a PITA. So you buy a $99.00 Chinese made "claw" off eBay only to find out in the first storm that it was CAST not FORGED like the real McCoy and it broke and now you're on the rocks. Both anchors will perform virtually identically but the real Bruce is a substantially better built product and MANY imitation Bruce anchors have broken....

The Manson is not as robustly constructed IMHO. I have to anchor near offshore islands used in the granite quarrying days. More than once I've had an anchor stuck in tailings and more than once I've either bent or broken anchors..

I did not have to spend my hard earned money on a Rocna, I wanted to, because I do feel it's better built that's all..

P.S. A Hunter or Catalina would have both got you sailing so why did you buy the Barberis??? Did the quality and integrity of the build or construction play any role??

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Craig Smith

In any case I believe most of Halekai's sailing is in softish bottoms, where the differences between setting performance of anchors is lessened. Manson's Rocna copy features far less tip-weight, a heavily compromised skid design, and in the West Marine / SAIL testing, performed much less consistently. The differences are not just about cheapened construction and durability. More: About the Manson Supreme Anchor

Ah Craig I have plenty of spots where even my Spades had trouble setting that's why I kept looking. From eel grass beds to hard gravel bottoms where currents whip anything soft away Maine actually does have more bottom types than just mud.. Having said that about 75% - 80% of my anchoring is in soft mud..

Both my Manson and Rocna have set every time, first time, in these "trouble" spots. I don't doubt for one second that in 1000 sets I'd see that the Rocna is a better performer but when you take the "n" down to around 100 there is less of a difference..

[sailingdog]

I've never understood why someone who has a boat would skimp on ground tackle. It always seemed to me that it made more sense to get the best ground tackle you could, since that was often what was keeping you and your boat in one piece.

How much is your boat worth to you? How much is your life worth to you? If you get caught anchored out in a storm... wouldn't you rather have the strongest anchor with the best setting capability, and best re-setting capability holding your boat???

A Danforth makes a nice lunch hook, but IMHO, it isn't a serious anchor for overnighting on. There are much better designs out there... and IMHO, the Rocna is the best of the better designs. While I haven't compared it to a Manson Supreme, as Halekai has done, I have compared it to Danforths, CQRs, Bruces, Claws, and a few others.

[camaraderie]

I'm gonna let Craig's post stand unedited as he is basically responding to a comparison of his product with another which is legitimate. the makers of Manson are welcome to do the same if they so choose.

As to MY recommendations...the governing factor was Hog's need for a second anchor TOMORROW. Given the extremely soft mud bottos in the area and the in store availablity choices at West...I thought the Delta and the Fortress were the two best choices.

I used a Delta for 6 years of cruising and dragged 3 times...only once due to the anchor not holding (in jello like deep mud in the DR) and twice due to anchoring by hooking debris and not the bottom. I have good confidence in the anchor but if I had to do it all over again fo extended cruising...one of the newer designs would be my choice...Rocna or Spade.
One can always make the case for buying the best...but most of us ARE on budgets and most of us have limited cruising grounds with known conditions and won't be anchored out in "ultimate" conditions...so other choices can make a lot of practical sense without endangering the boat or crew beyond what most of us would consider very acceptable risk.
Walking down the docks in the Chesapeake Bay or the sounds of NC...one sees row after row of 20-30 year old boats and it is rare to see anything other than a Danforth, CQR , an occasional Bruce or more recently Delta. Somehow these boats have all survived without killing their owners for decades.

[PBzeer]

I'd have to go along with cam here. Especially in light of the Hawg's sailing habits and venue. For continual anchoring out as in cruising, then yes, spend the extra money for the best ground tackle you can. For the casual weekend type cruiser, who can and usually does avoid bad weather, then I don't think it's that much of an issue. Get something geared to your area.

I appreciate the Dawg's point, and if money and availability aren't an issue, feel it's the best way to go. But as cam pointed out, and I have noticed, most people use a CQR, Bruce or Danforth on the boats I've seen in the past year.

[sailhog]

I just spent $173 plus tax on a 22-pound Delta, and about $55 on some 5/16" chain. All together, my chain collection runs about 25 feet long. The boat it's going to secure is a Catalina 30, which displaces about 10,000 lbs... I'm not going to use the Danforth; it's going in the lazarette. The winds are supposed to pipe up to 20 kts on Saturday evening for a short period, but I think this ground tackle should keep me in put.

Agreed? Or not...

[Freesail99]

Do you have a windlass ?

[sailhog]

Originally Posted by Freesail99

Do you have a windlass ?

Freesail,
Negative. But I have a winch on the mast that should be able to double as one.